You know,

After all the theories and ramblings on why some GI and some don't I am beginning to think it all boils down to one simple trait. Honesty. I am hopelessly honest in all my dealings. I don't lie to the IRS or my boss or my friends or my loved ones. I can't even tell "white" lies. I just can't and won't do it. Is this a GI trait? Is anyone but me straightforward and blunt? Even rude sometimes? Just wondering

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), October 06, 1999

Answers

More like BRUTAL honesty. Yes, I can relate and have been criticized for same..

-- Big D (ddac82@yahoo.com), October 06, 1999.

Honesty ranks way way up there for us. We try not to be too rude but sometimes the truth hurts. Those most offended, we've noticed, are those who have sold out their grip on truth and constantly justify to themselves all the good reasons why they have to scam, steal, claw, trash, lie, and rake their way to "success" while plastering a big fake smile on their face ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 06, 1999.

R-

I admire honesty as a trait to be attained, but I don't believe you or I, or anyone else is truly *honest*. I won't go into any philosophic dissertation, or religious quest, but if the stakes are high enough, no one resists. Even poor Cephas lied and there-by fulfilled Jesus' prophecy about his human qualities. "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times" Simon Peter was unable to resist, and lied about his acquaintance with the Lord. - St. John 18:17..."I am not"

Not that this is an excuse to willfully disobey, just a profound look at our inner man.

I totally respect you for striving to achieve continuity, but admonish you for expounding upon it.

Uncrossed lines! These are the things I fear most!

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), October 06, 1999.

Honesty, the *only* policy.

When I was in California a few years ago, and standing in line at the cashiers register in a drug store in a blue collar area, I felt a touch on my arm. The older gentleman behind me said, "Excuse me, I think you dropped that five." Sure enough, there was a five dollar bill on the floor. I thanked him sincerely for telling me and said I'd have never known if he'd just picked it up for himself.

"My honesty's worth more than that to me", he said.

Thinking about it later, I realized that my honesty is worth more than money to me,too.

(As in the story about the man who asked the woman at a cocktail party if she'd go to bed with him for a million dollars. "Okay", she replied. "What about for five dollars?" "What kind of woman do you think I am??" she asked huffily. "That's already established, now we're just setting the price".)

-- T the C (tricia_canuck@hotmail.com), October 06, 1999.

Honest is as honest does. No need to shout it from the rooftop.

-- giapetto (truth@humble.pie), October 06, 1999.

Arrgghh. Sorry, Mike, I submitted at the same time as you. Makes me sound like a self-righteous prig, and like I disagree with you. Hopefully neither is true :-o

I debated about adding a sentence to the effect that while those are my feelings about honesty, I am human and full of self-deceit, which makes it very difficult to be honest always. That is what I strive for. But, when I do succeed, it's only by the grace of God.

-- T the C (tricia_canuck@hotmail.com), October 06, 1999.

Gee, R seemed to just be trying to see a common trait that we might share - that might explain WHY we Get It. I didn't think she was blowing her own horn. To simple state you are an honest person, to those with whom you can only type messages to, isn't a crime.

(I honestly am not sure why I posted this though)

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), October 06, 1999.

It's also a matter of perceptions.

I used to be one who agreed with the basic premise of this forum; i.e. a "GI", i.e. a "Doomer". Yet now I most vehemently disagree with that way of thinking. I was honest then in my way of thinking; I am no less honest now. That was what I believed then; this is what I believe now.

The other day I argued with a woman on this forum about events surrounding the recent flood in eastern NC, and facts surrounding it. Though I'm living right in the middle of this nightmare, and know more about these events than anyone posting to this forum, by virtue of real-life every-day experience, she called me a liar, in no uncertain terms. But what I came to realize, was that in her perceptions, I was a liar. That was what she believed. She was dead wrong; but that was what she believed at that time.

People can be absolutely wrong, yet honest in their beliefs.

But being sincere in a wrong belief will not absolve a person, if that person leads others astray. And THAT is what Doomers need to be careful about.

Live your own life, do what you will. That's your business. But you'd best be careful about your influence on others, is my point.

If you persuade others to cash in their life savings, or persuade pregnant women to have abortions (these things have indeed happened, and that's no lie) on the basis of *honest* though *wrong* beliefs; I think you'll still have a responsibility to these people when they realize they've been led astray.

Honesty is a personal issue. Being honestly wrong is a personal issue.

Influencing other people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do, due to 'honestly wrong' beliefs, becomes more than just a personal issue. That becomes a societal issue, and everybody's business. The penalties accompanying such actions, should harm result, become steeper as a matter of course.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), October 06, 1999.

Never encountered any.

-- Spidey (in@jam.Islip), October 06, 1999.

"But being sincere in a wrong belief will not absolve a person, if that person leads others astray. And THAT is what Doomers need to be careful about.

Live your own life, do what you will. That's your business. But you'd best be careful about your influence on others, is my point."

That is pure self-serving garbage, written by a hypocrite.

Bird man, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Polys who try to persuade the world that everything's going to be all right, and that there's no problem can have a far worse influence than someone who is advocating being prepared. That is you, CL.

Your self righteousness is pathetic, especially when you proclaim that you're right in the middle of things and therefore know all about it and that anyone who disagrees with you is totally wrong.

You haven't demonstrated ANY knowledge of ANY subject since you began ranting on this forum, and this post is no more creditable than any of the rest. (BTW, did you use the name John Howard for a while? Definite similarity in the conceit exhibited by both of you......Howard had to try to woo us with his IQ on his first post. You're doing it now, big brain.)

-- not (johnhoward@nc.computer), October 06, 1999.

As far as I am concerned honesty is not something to brag about. Anymore than any other mental habit. It is simply a facet of my personality. It is not something I have struggled for and attained. It is simply part of who I am. Like my brown hair and short stature.

It does, however, make denial a more painful state for me to be in as opposed to looking at reality. When I learned that the Panamal Canal would be shutting down and that all oil imports will cease I had to look at that. I couldn't lie to myself and say "it won't be that bad" or "it will happen somewhere else."

I also couldn't lie to my family and friends when they asked what I thought of Y2k. Now that doesn't mean I have to blab all my thoughts and convictions to any yahoo (except maybe here ;-) But it does mean I use my real e-mail addy - to heck with the spammers. I don't dye my hair, lie about my age, or pretend I know more than I do. If this is "boasting" then the world is in a sorry state in deed.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), October 06, 1999.