I find that as we approach October a soberness is beginning to set in. It is the realization that this is going to be bad. I was sure by now, the y2k issue would be mainstream. But it's still a peripheral issue in the media, and the government is not asking for airtime to speak to the American people.

I am feeling two things:

One is the fear of a sudden wave of panic buying a global market collapse before 2000.

The other is that I am finding myself hoping more and more that the pollies are right. Does anyone else feel this way?

I know it is illogical to me, but who doesn't want prosperity to continue. I know it could result in positive things like a renewal of government and spiritual revival, but it could also result in socialism/totalitarianism, war, and persecution.

I am prepared for the worst. I have manual access to water, wood for heat, fuel to run things for a long time, weapons for self-defense and hunting, solar for refrigeration etc. and enough food and hybrid seeds to keep a small band going for a while. Got enough cash and coins put away. And the greatest thing is that I know Him.....

But I find myself saying, I don't what kind of world we are heading into, but I'll take the evil I know, then the evil I don't. I don't want to see children abandoned and hurt. I don't want to see panic and fear.

C'mon somebody give me something that will give me some hope, I'm thinking I want this to all go away. I don't like what I am seeing ahead.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 30, 1999

Answers

Psalms 27 for me and for you.

The 'big picture' just scares me to death so I stopped looking at it except a glance every now and then. You are going to have a chance to help some people. Focus on this goodness which will flow from God through you to others. There is a reason for your awareness and preparations which is in God's hands and not yours. He is in charge of your case so rest in Him and in His wisdom for your whole life.

Pertaining to the glib false prophets who tell everyone that there is only 'peace and safety' ahead, you know that is false. There is real judgement coming. That is a judgement of what is good as well as what is bad. All judgement is partial and intended to awaken us to our need of Him. People will get hurt but only because they have chopsen lies and deceit.

Love the children who come your way. You are set to shelter them.

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), September 30, 1999.

BB,

I find that I'm tiptoeing across a tight rope, supended over denial and despair.

-- flora (***@__._), September 30, 1999.

BB.

I feel this too. I'm actually fighting denial right now with my hopes that this has all been blown way out of proportion. This may be because as of yesterday I have concluded that my desire to bug out has become less realistic.

The nuclear accident in Japan today has me very worried. This kind of problem is happening when everything is, for the most part, working. Japan is so worried that they've asked the US military for help. Our military had to decline for some reason. What if this kind of situation begins to occur in various facilities soon?

I hope and pray the Pollys are right. My fear is that doomers haven't been nearly pessimistic enough.

Mike

=============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), September 30, 1999.

I'll chime in.....

Well, you brought up Him, I'm assuming you mean God. Most religions believe in the return of God, and also most believe that for that to happen, first the world must go through an enormous upheaval.

Call me what you will, but I've been waiting, dare I say expecting even hoping for God to return. I know that for this to happen things have to go to hell first. BB, you must know this too. Don't fear. Keep Gods laws and you will be ok.

If y2k fizzles so be it. If y2k means something much more apocalyptic in nature, so be that too. My dream in life is to be here and ALIVE when God returns, maybe that's part of the reason I'm a GI. I wan't to minimize the chances of me dying or becoming destitute before that event might occur.

I know I'll probably be flamed for getting religious, but compared with what the future holds for people with similar beliefs as mine, being flamed on an internet bb is cake.

Keep the faith above all. Godspeed.

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), September 30, 1999.

BB,

Some peace-of-mind, despite the travail and tribulation upon us;

When you read the last line of the last chapter, WE WIN!

It's going to take the most horrific time in man's history for mankind to realize it cannot live and survive without God.

But know it is all going to be allowed to happen so that He can fulfill His purpose for man.

And it is good.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), September 30, 1999.

BB,

Yep, the following is slightly modified from something that I sent you this morning:

I can hear the evil laughter, even as I see darkness falling across America and see shadowy red figures and faces, and even as I feel the dread of pure evil descending on this once great land.

Let us continue to hold fast to the Rock.

-- de (delewis@XOUTinetone.net), September 30, 1999.

Revelation 16:19KJV And the great city was divided int three parts,and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in rememberance of God, to give unto her the cup of wine of the fierceness of His wrath.

-- (freeman@interx.net), September 30, 1999.

I agree with you, both in mind and spiritual viewpoint. For years I have known that things would eventually 'come to a head' so to speak. For the longest time I tried to believe that "Hey we'll be fine...this to will come to pass..."

Now...I ain't so sure these days... All I can figure is to keep my head straight, and my eyes open, and come what may, go out standing tall, locked and loaded, protecting my family. Thats all anyone could hope for I guess..

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), September 30, 1999.

BB:

It is easy to feel fear. Since you are a believer, here is where my hopes comes from.

My husband and I have been preparing since the summer of '98. We have struggled to sort out our faith in a God who is big enough to protect and provide for His people, and other scriptural passages that commend those who prepare for the future (i.e. Proverbs 22:2). Below is an excerpt from a devotion we prepared for our church that summarizes our thoughts on a Christian prospective towards Y2K. (For others of different faiths, this posting is not meant to offend.)

"So we have come to a sense of balance. Balance between the call in 1 Timothy to provide for your own family, and the call in Luke and Matthew not to be anxious for food and clothing(see Luke 12:16-34).

There are several hopeful lessons for Y2K to be gleaned from this passage. It is also challenging:

Vs: 18-20: Do not trust in your own provisions and labors

Vs: 21: Rather be rich toward God.

Vs. 22: We are not to worry about our lives, what you will eat, or wear.

Vs: 31: But seek His kingdom and these things will be added to you

Vs: 32: Do not be afraid.

Vs: 33: Sell your possessions, give to the poor

Some are using Y2K as an excuse to get their spiritual house in order. I hope we do not need an excuse, but I agree with their thinking. Vs. 18-21 clearly say we are not to trust our own labors to protect us. We are to be rich towards God. We are to seek his Kingdom and these things will be given to us. So let us prepare for Y2K by seeking His kingdom and being rich towards God.

Some are saying that Y2K may be the beginning of tribulation and Jesus may be coming back. But Jesus says we are not to know the hour or the day of his return. Just the fact that some are calling for it, makes me very cautious about making predictions.

Some are using the Year 2000 problem as a call for survivalism. Run to the hills and take your family, food and guns with you. Others are saying it's the end of the world as we know it.

But Jesus says in vs. 27-33 that we are not to be afraid. We are not to be afraid. And earlier he says we are not to be anxious for what we shall eat, drink or wear. So even if the worst happens and great Y2K problems occur, and even if the world is fearful and afraid, we are not to be. So we have struggled to answer the call to provide for our family given in 1 Timothy, but to not trust in our own provisions, and not to be fearful or anxious. If this isn't difficult enough, vs. 33 gives us an even more challenging call. Right after talking about the world running after food and drink, he tells us not fear but to sell our possessions and to give.

What a witness if Y2K problems occur and the body of Christ took this call seriously! What if there were food shortages and unemployment and we were seen given away food, and selling our possessions to help others? What a witness if the world were fearful, but we Christians were calm and generous, trusting in the Lord to provide."

You may infer from this devotion, that we chose to remain where we are, to prepare, and to build community. However, God did not place us in the heart of a big city (though we are close to one). And his call to us may be different than his call to you.

However, I do know this, all our preparations can not save us. One gang with a gun could take away everything we have prepared. Our trust is in the Lord who is our protector and provider.

-- tryingtokeepabalance (pemorris@bigfoot.com), September 30, 1999.

BB-Step outside, listen to the birds, take a deep breath, and remember that God Bats Last.

-- JHenry (shotgun12@att.net), September 30, 1999.

I have ALWAYS hoped the pollies would "win", still do. God does not call us to wish for calamity but for tranquillity (as Paul urged Timothy to pray). TEOTWAWKI is at least as likely to unleash man's sin (speaking here as a Christian) as his obedience to his Creator. As for the timing of divine judgments, those are hidden in His eternal purpose, however much we may receive advance flashes.

I don't personally expect a stock market crash before rollover, despite the nerves (not surprising and I/many others predicted those nerves at this time, of course).

Not all the global, economic, monetary indicators are bad for U.S. markets. While I would certainly not be SURPRISED to see Dow plunge several thousand points in next three months, I still expect the scenario I "bet" on intellecutally two months ago:

--- The Dow between 10 and 10,500 in September, as it has been for the most part.

--- Dipping below 10,000 in October but with lots of air-pump action to stabilize.

--- Mainly sideways motion until mid-December than more downward through the end of the year (9000-9500).

IMO, it is in the long-term interest of Japan and Europe that our markets not plummet before rollover just as it is in their long-term interest to take the economic ball away from U.S. if they can.

The elites will work together behind the scenes to see that there is an uncomfortable but reasonably successful international dance between now and rollover.

For the same reason, I don't see gold skyrocketing additionally before rollover (though CONGRATS to forum regulars who have ALREADY profited and another 25% gain would not surprise me)!

From Dec 15, while I have my guesses, all bets are "off" with respect to the markets for the following three months, minimally.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), September 30, 1999.

BB - I've often heard the phrase "Money makes good people better and bad people worse". I think Y2K and the associated stresses and strains will play out along this theme. Good people will, given the opportunity, step up to the plate and provide much of what is needed to keep this train on track. On the other hand, bad folks (You Know Who You Are!) will simply rationalize a quick trip back to the "my gun is bigger mentality" and propagate a nightmare that will forever alter the lives of many and they way we all view our country.

Look closely at your neighborhood/community/city. I did and moved my family out of metro Atlanta. I hope nothing bad happens. But I can not feel good about life in any large city if TSHTF. The booming economy combined with the Media's Y2k Lullabye messages have given people the idea that, per usual, anything that goes wrong will happen "over there". I lived on the north side of Atlanta (one of those neighborhoods with a golf course)and have met enough self-annointed masters of the universe to make me puke. Their mentality is simple - there is no problem that I will ever encounter that I cannot brilliantly solve with my checkbook.

If TSHTF, it will slam these people so hard they won't be able to mutter the words - Maslow's Hierarchy.

GET SERIOUS - THIS IS NOT A DRESS REHEARSAL

-- Safer (BuggedOutOf@lanta.Duh), September 30, 1999.

The current U.S. "prosperity" is hollow, fueled mostly by debt.

-- B-17 (flying@fortress.com), September 30, 1999.

>> It is the realization that this is going to be bad. ... C'mon somebody give me something that will give me some hope ...<<

Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

IOW, once you have arranged your life on a sound basis, don't get ahead of yourself. Tomorrow will come. Some days will be better than others. Life is like that. You can't insulate yourself from all pain. You can't even predict how much pain is in store around the bend, or what joys might be there. You can only do your best and then see what happens.

I've had to learn this lesson in my own life and then relearn it until I get it right. My daughter was born with multiple, severe disabling conditions. Medical emergencies come and go in our household with great frequency, but no predictability. God only knows if I will see my daughter die before I do, or what we will suffer in the meantime.

But that suffering is only one side of the coin. If only I have eyes to see, the world is constantly proving what an excellent place it is to live in, full of peace and beauty. These exist in abundance. They are just as real as the pain. They are always there, while the pain is only intermittent. Even on our worst days I turn to my wife and say, "the world is a good place." And I mean it.

Even after Y2K, the world will still be a good place. I am sure of it.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), September 30, 1999.

I also am pessimistic. And I too hope that the pollies are right. My impression is that a cetain pecentage of the people in this Forum WANT a debacle. Why? Do you think that people who are necessarily plugged into the present order of things are evil and deserve to perish? Do any of you think that you are so well prepared that you will survive a TOTAL collapse? Dream on, you are toast too.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 30, 1999.

Through all what I won't give up is my smile, laughter and love of people, because what you get back is smiles, laughter and love. Have an 18 yo son that for four years have fought against drugs, gangs, crime and not sure he'll make it yet. It took my smile for a time but wasn't worth giving up the happiness it brings to others. Whatever happens there's so much strength of character out there we'll pull through together, that's as it should be. Spend a day smiling at people and see what it does to them.

Read the comments from all the people that come and go here daily. Even through the sarcasm and anger, you can see there's a whole lot of good people out there.

-- claurann (claurann@aol.com), September 30, 1999.

WHAT AN INCREDIBLE THREAD! To see people of God come into a place like this and be unashamed and unafraid to speak up for Him is amazing. Especially in light of the flaming that can take place from many of the regulars in this place, and you know who you are. Our God will always have His people placed in an area where, when the times comes for judgement to fall, they will be able to bless those that they come into contact with. It is refreshing to see "brother's" willing to be used in just such a way. My hats off to all of you who are firm in the faith. It is true, we do ultimately win and every knee will bow, even polly knee's!

Keep the Faith......

Don

-- don (mrmtgman@aol.com), September 30, 1999.

Pay no attention to the 19 upside down 666s that appear on this page...

-- a (a@a.a), September 30, 1999.

I just got back from spending an hour in prayer with 7 other people, three of them ministers. We spend an hour every Thursday just praying in the sanctuary, for the churches to wake up, for God to come down, for repentance and of course for our nation, our children and our families. I was weeping today underneath a pew, for our God to have mercy.

I come back home and find myself stunned at this thread. I really don't know where to begin. I can feel the soul of some of you. I want to write a long pastoral letter to each one of you, and pray for you.

I hope the pollies will tune in here and see the kind of people who see trouble ahead. You people aren't fanatics, well except for a couple... :-) You are decent law abiding citizens who see our nation going to hell in a handbasket.

I didn't expect people to respond to me personally. I didn't expect the high level of spirituality. I am overwhelmed with emotion right now. .....I asked for hope, knowing that it is not possible with the nations they way they are.....but like a serendipitous ray of sunshine sneaking through a heavy cloud cover, you faceless folks have given me hope that, people like yourselves will come forward and be God's answer to the trouble around us when the trouble arises.

I have my good days and bad. Most days I am feeling awful strong, at peace, and full of the joy of the Lord. Then there are those few days when I remember Peter, who thought he was ready to die, but in the day of testing realized he was not ready. And I think of the people who are ready especially the children and I don't feel so happy any more.

My prayer for all of us is that we will let God prepare us for whatever lies ahead. And yes God is up to bat last..... :-)

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 30, 1999.

Cygnus, You say that most religions expect God to return. I'm no expert on world religions but isn't that concept primarily a Christian one? Buddhism, Hinduism and many other faiths deal with an inner journey where one returns to God or whatever name the Supreme power is given, as opposed to your concept. In other words, you don't wait for God to come to you - you go to God. One person at a time. Please, no spam. I'm just a nitpicker sometimes.

-- (rcarver@inacom.com), September 30, 1999.

Lars, many of us believe our systems (political, economic, social, etc.) have become so corrupt as to be evil, and a "corrective shock" is necessary if we are to arrest our collective slide into the abyss.

Unfortunately, our society is dependent on these systems -- so there will be a great deal of suffering before we get to renewel. I really don't think it's about punishment or retribution (although I agree that some heated exchanges could be interpreted that way), but a willingness, even eagerness to accept discomfort, financial catastrophe or death if it results in a better world for our children's children.

I believe it *will* ultimately result in a better world, Lars. And if I'm around to see it, it will be a result of God's grace -- not my preps.

Hang in there BB, we're with you.

-- DaveW (dwood@southwind.net), September 30, 1999.

Whether or not Y2K is a catalyst for hard times, it appears many of us sense something's coming. This bubble of prosperity and peace will not last forever. It's just a matter of when. Can you rise to the occassion when things sour? Even when things around you are falling apart, a trust in God can bring peace to you, and strength to help others.

-- NAR (peace2U@Too.com), September 30, 1999.

i believe ,we are feeling the ''birthpangs' all nature groaning-awaiting the manifestation-of the sons of GOD. i won,t be surprised if nature gets stranger by degrees.JESUS said GO into ALL the world,with the good news,this FORUM is in the WORLD.

-- it is written. (dogs@zianet.com), September 30, 1999.

p.s.--it,s TIME [true] CHRISTIANS. STOP HIDING IN CHURCHES [come out of the closet.]--flamers are a test. they,ll g.i. when the tribulations begin.

-- NOT ashamed of the gospel. (dogs@zianet.com), September 30, 1999.

In a matter of days I will become 64 years of age...note I didn't say "64 years old." In all that time I have suffered some singularly painful and difficult, long dark periods of being hit with things beyond my control. Yet never once has the Lord abandoned me, and from each of these experiences, I have grown closer to Him, stronger, and more grounded in the comfortable knowledge of who I am and Who He Is. When I was the prodigal, the Father sought me, and His Presence is sweeter now for my having run from It for a long time. As I contemplate what the Year 2000 may bring, most of it very frightening and totally unlike anything we have all ever experienced before, there are times when my stomach knots and my spirit says, "Why bother; why not just succumb when it happens." But then the predominant theme the Lord has planted in my spirit asserts itself, and I am reassured from beyond myself that we are each here at this time for a very special purpose, and that this purpose will be to be a light and a hope to others, and to help to rebuild our culture and nation on a solid foundation. When I ask myself, "Can I endure suffering, if called upon to do so or give up my faith, my beliefs, both political and spiritual, or to bow the knee to the Beast?" the Lord pulls a veil over the thought and I am given to know that HE is the all-sufficient One, and that His grace is made perfect in weakness. And I believe that as surely as the earth renews itself each spring, so it will in 2000 and beyond, whether we are here or not. I hope that this helps someone out there who is also struggling, as we each are. May the Lord bless you and keep you from falling, and present you faultless before His throne.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), September 30, 1999.

i sure am glad to see this thread. would it help to compare this with other historical events you have endured, that you were warned about in advance? would it help to keep things in perspective? 2 kinds of historical scenarios come to mind:

1. the cuban missile crisis. i was far to the northwest of the potentially affected area, but my husband was a kid who remembers one week of pure unadulterated terror doing duck and cover in school several times a day. but at least it was short-lived.

2. wars where you knew you and/or your loved ones would get drafted and/or your home would be part of a battlefield (europe and asia especially). ww1, ww2, korea, vietnam, etc. this agony of waiting is similar, i think, to what the young guys went through while waiting for the notice that they knew would come when they turned 18. or what britain went through at the beginning of ww2 waiting for the attempted invasion of britain.

this is a war of nerves, folks. don't let the devil win this war against you.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), September 30, 1999.

You know, It is in the best interest of life on earth that we take a dive. I have a book on the depression and guess what, kids, young people plow ahead and have fun and deal with the poverty. As long as someone values those he is around, he will do ok in poverty.

-- billburke (bburke@rocetmail.com), September 30, 1999.

Wow! BB, why are you so glum in your opening post? Did God show you some of the terrible judgments to fall upon America?

Of course I don't want the horrors to come. The majority of people I have encountered are blind to the present warning signs and great dangers nearing. They will be shaken deeply by fear and panic.

There is a massive presence of lying spirits spreading deception throughout America. Peoples' minds are becoming completely brainwashed with empty promises and hollow hopes. And that is what they want to believe. Their hearts and eyes and minds are focused on the material temporal things and not on the unseen eternal things.

I want to believe the truth, no matter how much it hurts me. And I've been hurt lately.

I consider this to be the last good year for America. Our happy prosperity will be taken away and replaced with sorrows and pains.

America will not repent in time to avoid the judgments. The line has been crossed. It's too late to turn back God's wrath upon the ungodly.

But there are those who will follow God through all the trials. They will go through the tribulational fires and be refined. There will be no easy escape, no "Left Behind". But the reward is greater than any earthly treasure.

The good news is if you are still alive when Christ returns, you will shout for joy to behold His victorious approach, and every wretched hurt you endured on this filthy planet will be forgotten when He brings you into His presence for eternity.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), September 30, 1999.

Dinosaur, Just a weak moment I guess. I was simply trying to say that a doomer doesn't necessarily look forward to what is coming. I find myself wanting to believe the good reports. I mean who really wants to go through trial and tribulation. What woman says, Yeah, labor pains. You know? Even Jesus, in Gethsemane prayed, "Father take this cup from me, nevertheless.......

Like your words Dinosaur. Best post I've seen you make. :-)

-- bb (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 30, 1999.

Evil in the world? You better believe it. That is why we suffer.

Ultimately, though, evil runs its course--like a snake who is not nourished while dining on his tail. He gets smaller and smaller until he disappears. Good does not operate like this. God's love is sustaining and wholesome, letting those who feed on it grow and be full of life.

No matter what happens, always know that pride, greed, lust, and lies have a funny way of self-destructing. Stay as far away as possibly from them and you may be safe.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), September 30, 1999.

As you sit by the glow of your lighted meal, with those you have prepared for, know that it is not by accident that you have made some sacrifices, weathered some anguish, overcome the urge to acquiesce to the weight of it all. It is by design, and as it all comes to fruition, you will be enveloped in the glow. You will find comfort, perhaps even joy, and most certainly you will find a depth of love that we have been too busy to nurture. Peace be with you.

-- michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), October 01, 1999.

In ref Japanese accident:

From: TToups@aol.com My Thoughts; I am not a physicist, though I have studied radiological defense extensively and done associated independent study on the subject of nuclear energy and weapons. Take this as a (somewhat) informed layman's take on the Japanese nuclear accident. Even though I'm something of a doomer, I doubt that this event had anything to do with Y2K. Instead, I think that we just got a peak at Japan's covert nuclear weapons program. Here's why: a.) The only kind of event that could produce the "blue flash" and almost immediate incapacitation of the three workers described by multiple news sources would be what is known as a prompt critical type of accident. This is effectively the beginning of an uncontrolled chain reaction and it would produce a massive neutron flux, severely irradiating the workers, even some distance away. Expect to hear that these men die within one to three days. There is essentially no hope for them. Other types of radiation injuries result in much more delayed onset of symptoms. b.) The only way to have an accidental prompt critical accident with Uranium would be for very highly enriched -- and concentrated -- U-235 to be involved. U-235 is the fissile isotope of Uranium (there is another fissile isotope, U-233, but it is more of lab curiosity than a useful isotope). Natural Uranium, U-238, is not fissile except when used as a casing or "tamper" in hydrogen bombs. U-235 is bomb material. It is almost invariably used in very dilute amounts in reactor fuel. That's why commercial reactor meltdowns are dangerous, but not likely to produce nuclear explosions. Melted reactor fuel rods can pool at the bottom of the reactor vessel, creating intense heat and melting through the reactor vessel and into the ground (hence the term "The China Syndrome"), but again, they are extremely unlikely to produce a signature blue flash or nuclear explosion. c.) The Japanese certainly have had the technical sophistication to produce nuclear weapons for at least two decades. Uranium enrichment requires massive expense and industrial plant capability. Again, this is well within Japanese capability (and also the reason why these weapons are still outside the capability of terrorist groups to produce, thank God). I believe that that the Japanese probably have a covert nuclear weapons program of some sort. They may keep the weapons components separate in order to continue to claim non-nuclear weapons status, but available for almost immediate assembly. Asia is currently a very unstable region and the recent Taiwan/China saber rattling may have the Japanese quietly building up their defense capability. This accident seems much more likely to have been related to weapon production, rather than commercial reactor fuel production. Something to think about. Best regards Doc --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ?? BETA TEST our free, real-time technical support service with live experts !! go to EXPERTCITY.COM Click Here ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The DC Y2K Weather Reports - Helping People Understand and Prepare. Thanks for your support. http://www.kiyoinc.com/subs.html

With all the attendant sourcing intact.
Night Train

-- jes an ol footballer who found a little light (Nighttr@in.lain), October 01, 1999.

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