I left myself wide open on that one. It seems many of the posts are based on assumptions moreso than ever before. I think this forum is beginning to have Gary North qualities without the brains to back it up. At least Gary is intellegent, however, we also know his agenda. I'm very amazed at the relentless efforts of the regulars here who post informative links, however, the lunatic element here has left me less interested to view posts and lessened the frequency of forum visits. Most of the regulars seem to have left this place and have been replaced by whacko lunatic types. It is difficult to stomach the only quality Y2K forum much longer. I resent you people because I realize the hypocritical element you possess. Once upon a time many of you felt an obligation to informing d.g.i's as a means to lessen the blow on the total american population. For some time now since Ed left, the focus has become off kilter for a greater number of contributers here. I understand that if you don't see it as a contribution but as a means to get your rocks off, you catch my drift. What kind of conspiracy is going on here?!? Get your shit together people and quit assuming so much more than you chronicle.

-- Reg (regular@endof.rope), September 26, 1999

Answers

One problem is, for the 32768th time, "Nobody knows" - most of the discussion is indeed based on hot air. The spin and rose-tinted readiness reporting ensures that this will be the case.

This shouldn't be a reason for no one posting, however. Use of common sense and logic should allow for fruitful discussion, as should the highlighting of relevant news items.

This group is supposed to be moderated, but I see little sign of this. Time after time I waste my time going into a useless or vindictive thread. I know that there are many messages and few (2?) moderators - maybe that's the problem.

-- Y2KGardener (gardens@bigisland.net), September 26, 1999.

I left North's forums long ago...after he did the interview with Art Bell, the forums got crazy with idiots! Doing an interview with Bell was the stupidist thing North has ever done.

The problem here, I think, is that there just isn't that much "earthshaking" stuff coming out anymore on Y2K. Bigbro seems to have everyone settled into comfort mode. As a result, many are turning up rocks to find any possible crisis. Martial Law for example.

I'm glad someone posted those military messages below. Now if folks would just read them sloooowly and carefully, they would see that civil disturbance is the lowest priority they have. They are more concerned with making sure CO's inventory what they have as far as supplies, and don't make those inventories known to anyone outside of DoD. Now if ya want to raise some serious discussion, why do you suppose the Top Dogs are telling the base commanders not to tell anyone what they have in the line of supplies, and by no means are they to release any supplies to ANYONE OUTSIDE DOD!!!

But nooooooo...that's not scarey enough. Let's talk about Martial Law!

Let's talk about the decline of America!

Let's talk about the stock market going to hell in a handbasket!

Sunspots are cool! Comets too! Anything but Y2K!!!

-- Don Wegner (donfmwyo@earthlink.net), September 26, 1999.

Oh yeah...and if all else fails...we can dogpile on Flint!!!

-- Don Wegner (donfmwyo@earthlink.net), September 26, 1999.

Speaking as a lunatic, I would say that there are less loonies here than at previous times, although wierd al-d does his best to make up for the shortfall. As for dogpiling on Flint, I've never been able to work out whether that guy is a disinfo operative or just a terminally middle-of-the-road guy who's psychologically incapable of accepting a "far out" conclusion even when the evidence demands it. I haven't been able to work that out; but I have worked out that he must be some sort of masochist to keep coming back here getting his ass kicked repeatedly, so we're all probably doing him a favour by dissing him. And it helps us relieve some of the stress generated by y2k.

-- number six (Iam_not_a_number@hotmail.com), September 26, 1999.

Reg, if you'd like to see the number of on-topic posts increase, could you possibly post some yourself? There are lots of articles buried in foreign newspapers and occasionally some of us have time to go through and winkle them out. But not often. If you would plug in "foreign AND newspapers" to a search engine, you would come up with a nice selection of links and could search them for relevant information. I'll look forward to your next post.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), September 26, 1999.

I'd like to use this as a spot to say - One of the good things that might come of this Site, is that people preparing will really get going. Or, someone thinking of getting going will now go balls to the walls.

Any interaction with Flint, and Hoffmeister?, is only disuading(Sp) those who would prepare from doing so.

I say, never answer them in any regard, so as to help those tiny few who might get distracted, even for a second, by reading their crap and the replys. Because the only prudent thing to do is prepare.

By the way Reg, what's Gary's " agenda" and how does that change the facts? And, the reason the "Forum" might seem less "helpful", is we all realize if you haven't got it by now, it's too late.

Gregg

-- Gregg (g.abbott@starting-point.com), September 26, 1999.

I think people are getting nervous! DGIs, DWGIs and GIs are all coming down to the same line at the same time all carrying different baggage. Who has the right baggage full of the right stuff? We will soon find out, but in the meantime, no matter what we think of y2k we all have that little voice in the back of our heads that says, "do I REALLY need to prepare, maybe'? Or, "is it REALLY going to be so bad that I had to cash in our 401s and our stock and spend all that money on preps"? So...no one knows...and that makes all of us damn nervous. Taz

-- Taz (Taz@aol.com), September 26, 1999.

INTERCONNECTEDNSS

-- JOHNNY (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), September 26, 1999.

Amen, Taz! The crunch is on, and escalating quickly. This End Game is movin' at warp speed. Time to put it in full Ready mode, folks. "Balls to the walls" indeed!

-- Faith Weaver (suzsoltuions@yahoo.com), September 26, 1999.

Are there more lunatics here now? Yes and no, depends on who is doing the defining of "lunatic" doesn't it? Some folks will say that YOU are a lunatic for worrying about Y2K.

Once upon a time many of you felt an obligation to informing d.g.i's as a means to lessen the blow on the total american population. For some time now since Ed left, the focus has become off kilter for a greater number of contributers here.

Yes indeed. However the time for informing DGIs has long since passed, hasn't it? Anyone who has the capacity to be concerned about Y2K should have had the old bell upstairs rung by now. Ed's leaving had nothing to do with the forum losing it's focus, he moderated with a very light hand and let the kids fight it out.

I also agree with Don, what's left to say about Y2K that hasn't been said ten million times before?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), September 26, 1999.

Actually less lunatics now, ya shoulda been here last December. Maybe you were, got some of the same troll qualities in your post. Hhhmmm.

Once a person understands Y2K technically -- and even that has been subject to countless debate -- what's left is the repercussions. The collapse of the carrying capacity does leave room for much discussion!

And about Ed -- he never left. He just wriggled out from under a barrage of weird eMail and focused on his own preps. He walks his talk. And he's never stopped reading the Forum and posting occasionally here. Never stopped his excellent essays! Go look at his Web Site and see how he still is actively reaching out re Y2K. You'd know that if you read the newsworthy threads here.

If you want to read some really lunatic stuff, go read ongoing first-person accounts of life in NC, post-Floyd, or life in Turkey, Greece, Taiwan, post-earthquakes. These real-life tragedies are full of clues re Post 3-Day Storm repercussions.

Nothing like reality ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 26, 1999.

Taz hit the nail on the head.

I think most GI's feel OK about it all, but maybe a few are very nervous, worried and upset.

I think if the general public (John Q. Public, et al) gets a little nervous about y2k, at some point, we will certainly understand.

If we can help others focus, then we will be doing something constructive.

The prepared GI's are in a better position, that being a position of strength and practical knowledge, to help others, if they need or request help, that is.

I do not think that helping others should outway; however, a reasonable risk to oneself or dependents.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 26, 1999.

Reg me lad, lunatics is what this forum be all about. You have the same people postulating over and over, each of them attempting to find what evades them in real life..an identity! Every little societal hiccup earns a new post to insure that the Y2K predictions will have some validity. Most of these lunatics spend so much time on this forum one has to wonder what kind of real life can be left for them. People, if things are all that bad, get off your fat asses and do something constructive. Preaching to each other in cyberspace aint doin shit so stop kidding yourself. Stop foaming at the mouth and go out and volunteer your services to the candidate of your choice, someone who can actually make the changes you so vehemently cry out for. Some of you are probably doing this already but the rest of you deserve whatever comes your way. That is if you are ever out of the house to see it coming.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), September 26, 1999.

another lunatic outted ...

-- woodwork (crawling@creepys.polyanal), September 26, 1999.

Gregg asks ..."what's Gary's " agenda" and how does that change the facts?"

It's what we think about the "facts" that determines what we do about them. So it matters whether you buy into someone else's interpretation of events, or develop your own. Your decisions can have real personal consequences.

North has done a great deal to focus public attention on Y2K and its consequences. The fact is that North has a very intensely focused personal agenda. Whatever one thinks of his vision of the future, his actions as a social gadfly on Y2K have been very useful to the community at large. North's website remains a valuable reference, with direct links to articles, discussions and news on Y2K. It's easy enough to work around North's spin on these.

As for Gary North's personal agenda:

Paul Thibodeau, of Calgary, Alberta, illustrates North's political views and aspirations by way of an extensive set of quotations taken from the writings of North and others in the Christian Reconstruction movement. See: http://www.serve.com /thibodep/cr/words.htm.

But Thibodeau is not an impartial observer. He is primarily interested in differentiating the "back-to-basics" Christianity he favors from the extreme rigor of the Christian Reconstruction movement advocated by North, and in refuting its principles. His own views on Y2K, and his take on Gary North, are presented here.

(Tested these links today.)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), September 26, 1999.

If I want preparation tips, I go to the prep forum. If I want reasoned discussion (and nothing but), I go to Humpty-Dumpty. If, on the other hand, I want to spend some time in the Big Top, I come here to Circus2000. Not that I don't occasionally find reasoned discussion or good tips here; I just don't COUNT ON IT, when I walk thru the door.

Yes there are loonies here. There and even Loonies (with a capital "L" and LOONIES (all caps), but so what? It's all subjective anyway. The crazy one, is always the one farthest from your view. To them, you're the one who has toys in the attic.

Besides, it never hurts to have exposure to opposing viewpoints. It helps to clarify why you believe what you believe, and shows the holes in your reasoning...at which point you can either shore up your reasoning, or discard the idea. Living in a bubble, is the surest way to be wrong.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 27, 1999.

What did you expect, as the year winds down? It takes all kinds.

I got some news for you. MORE TO COME!

I'm still here for a few reasons.

We do get the latest Y2K news here first. Not much of it lately, but what there is shows up here long before GN, or most of the other "hot Y2K" sites post it, let alone the "media".

We still have a huge programmer base here, 875 man-years last count, even if we have lost a few. (Mr. K. and MVI come to mind.) Do you think we've gained any? Check-out my current lurkers thread:

********** LURKERS ********** Please check in!

Yea, all kinds of OT noise going on. Smart-asses from debunky & biffy, our regular pollys, like Flint and Hoff, and the one-shot genius that just wandered in here.

Look past the crap and the noise. We're still here.

Tick... Tock... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), September 27, 1999.

A rational explanation for making Y2K preparations http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001R UO

Sincerely,
Stan Faryna

Got 14 days of preps? If not, get started now. Click here.

Click here and check out the TB2000 preparation forum.

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), October 01, 1999.

Hello,

Reg, I know what you mean. Yourdon's essay entitled "Soranora Y2K" keeps coming to mind. One of his central points; people seem to have their minds made up. Instead of listening and discussing, they argue and attack. Kind of like here. I fight back now and then, but I've been saying "soranora" more and more. Or just tell 'em to stick their heads in the nearest toilet and FLUSH!

I've been here a long time. I'm a lot less worried about Y2K in general than I was earlier in the year. In fact, I'm now not very worried at all. Just bought two new computers -- no "preps". In fact, today I put my AR-15 in on consignment at the gun shop. Don't figure I'll be needing it come next year. Don't expect any "Mad Max". Problem is, this is NOT OK with the lunitic fringe here. They WANT to see TEOTWAWKI. They attack anyone as a "polly" who doesn't feed them doom and gloom. If I say all the computer systems I personally know about are ready, which they are, all I would get is a bunch of $hitheads playing yet again "what if" -- ad nauseum. Sometimes I'm in the mood to argue, but I've grown increasingly weary of the $hitheads here. There is very little reasoning with them. That's why they're $hitheads! Plus, if you answer their questions, and they don't care for your answers (because your answers are the optimistic truth as you know it to be), they just keep asking the same questions over and over. Trying, I guess to imply that since you haven't yet answered it...this time...you must be unable to...and that proves Y2K will be TEOTWAWKI. Really twisted, but what do you expect from here these days. Not at all like it was a year or so ago here. Sad.

What bothers me the most here is all the anti-society talk. People advocating anarchy. People advocating murdering public officials via a lynch mob. Not very "American" in my book. Of course, these anti-American types think THEY are the patriotic ones, like Tim McVeigh! They remind me of a mentally ill person who thinks THEY are sane! It's the rest of the world that's crazy. Think they could benefit from studying what life is like for "the people" during a fascist "purge"...of course, this would not fuel their fantasies...and after all, they will be the one's in charge! At least in their deluded visions of doomer granduer and public lynchings. What a bunch of sick $hit for brains idiots. That's why I call 'em delusional doomer dummies -- the one's who WANT TEOTWAWKI. What idiots..no worse!

Hey, I recognize society and government isn't perfect. But I'm 100% against domestic terrorism, anarchy and folks who try to tear down society. I wonder if when these people viewed the Oklahoma City bombing, if they cheered or were sad at such an event. I remember thinking, as Tim McVeigh gave "name, rank and serial number", to what organization is he claiming rank and serial number? The one he just set off a truck bomb against? Talk about disconnect! Kind of like the pukes here who rant and rave about being patriotic, loving their country and the constitution, then advocating it's overthrow, destruction...or at least as much harm as any here are capable of dishing out to anyone or thing representative of it. And these lunitics think THEY are "tuned it" and "on target". How sad.

With all the unstable people out there, I wonder what affect all the anti-society and anti-government rantings here have on those who may be borderline...or just a few pills from running out of their medication! Or who stop taking it, rufusing to be "victims" of some government mind control via their medication any longer! Time for them to "strike back? I hope not...and hope the lunitic rantings here don't cost any innocent people their lives at the hands of any TIMEBOMB 2000 Frankensteins created by some here.

Most people here DON'T understand the technical issues as well as they think they do. Same goes for their concepts of society and government. If they did, they wouldn't jump to such simple minded "solutions" in their minds. They would certianly be less pessimistic regarding Y2K and less anti-society/government. But this is my opinion. Problem is, most of the lunitics here would attack me for having it...rather than feel, let alone defend, my right to have it...and being curteous and respectfull to someone with a differing opinion? Not much of that here. That's why I've come to refer to this place as STINKBOMB2000.

Since I think people's reaction to Y2K will make it about three times worse than it would otherwise be, this forumn still warrants an ocassional visit. Plus, I like to know just how "frothy at the mouth" lunitics are getting. Nice to know what's running around loose out there!

-- Genius (codeslinger@work.now), October 01, 1999.