TWA 800 and official lies

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By Reed Irvine ) 1999 WorldNetDaily.com

Thanks to Mike McNulty, an independent film producer, Attorney General Reno and the news media have learned that the FBI's denial that incendiary devices were used in its assault on the Branch Davidian compound at Waco was a lie. It was exposed by McNulty's discovery of a pyrotechnic tear-gas canister among the evidence gathered after the compound was burned to the ground. This proof that the government agencies cover up wrongdoing should have persuaded the media to re-examine other charges of serious government wrongdoing that they have dismissed as "conspiracy theories."

But on the heels of the Waco exposure, the major media ignored hard evidence in the form of recently released radar data that the government has been lying big time with respect to the evidence in the crash of TWA Flight 800. A group called the Flight 800 Independent Research Organization (FIRO) got the data from the National Transportation Safety Board in June, after having been stonewalled for two years.

The NTSB had pawned off on the press and the public radar data that showed only radar targets that at the time of the explosion were within a circle with a 10-nautical-mile radius, centered on the crash site. Four of the eight ships in that circle were three to six nautical miles from the center. When the plane blew up, the ship that was closest hightailed it out to sea doing 30 knots, not pausing to see if it could be of assistance. The FBI claims not to know the identity of this ship, and it refused to identify the other three for privacy reasons. After he retired, Jim Kallstrom, who headed the FBI investigation, told me that those three were "Navy vessels that were on classified maneuvers." That's on tape.

The radar data also showed an additional 25 ships that were 10 to 25 nautical miles from the crash site. Their behavior is startling. Ten of them were in a military warning zone, W-105, that had been declared off limits to non-military ships that day. Fourteen of them were on nearly parallel courses that would soon take them into W-105. Four of the five that were closest to Long Island were on similar courses that would take them into W-105. Four of the ships heading for the off-limits zone were traveling at 30 to 34 knots, speeds characteristic of warships, not freighters.

All of this suggests that all or nearly all the ships mentioned above were warships. Eyewitness and forensic evidence indicates that TWA 800 was hit by one or two missiles that might have come from those warships. The Navy's defense is to deny that any warships were close enough to have done that. It took over a month for it to admit that W-105 was activated at the time of the crash. It then said no ships had "checked in to use it," but the radar data show that 10 ships were in the warning zone at the time of the crash and that another 18 probably entered it soon after. It is most unlikely that these were private yachts or freighters bound for Europe.

The radar data showed some aircraft whose presence had not been disclosed. One was flying back and forth, partly over the warning zone and partly beyond its northern border. It was making tight U-turns, slowing down and speeding up. No one has yet explained its strange behavior.

The new radar data also expose a serious fraud. The FBI got the CIA to produce a video animation to discredit the many eyewitnesses who saw something streaking upward, intersecting with TWA 800 and blowing it up. The CIA video claimed that what they really saw was the plane pitching up after its nose was blown off and climbing three thousand feet, trailing burning fuel. The radar proves that this did not happen. It shows that after the nose was blown off, the speed of the plane increased sharply because it was plummeting. If it had climbed, it would have slowed down.

The news media should be demanding that the government identify the armada revealed by the radar and explain what it was doing. Those with the most clout didn't cover the news conference. They haven't learned Waco's important lesson -- the bigger the crime, the bigger the cover-up. C-SPAN covered the three-hour news conference live, showing the public how the establishment media cheat them by ignoring very important news.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 12, 1999

Answers

World Net Daily should replace USA Today.

-- Agent A2x3W45RTe9 (A2x3W45RTe9@zzz.qqq), September 12, 1999.

Check out:

http://www.twa800.com/

There is a lot to this story!

-- David Holladay (davidh@brailleplanet.org), September 12, 1999.

Now wouldn't the classroom be *INTERESTING* if there really WERE compare and contrast assignments like this! Civics.. U.S. Government.. Social Studies... make those subjects really come to life!!

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 12, 1999.

Yeah, there's a lot to this story, but it's not going anywhere beyond some discussion on a forum such as this. The public is not the least bit interested. They have the official response and have accepted that. Remember, this involves the NTSB, the FBI, and the DoD. The cover story was carefully massaged, and baked, for a year before they finally concluded that they had the "acceptable" answer. At that point it was printed, bound, and delivered. And that's the name of *that* tune.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), September 12, 1999.

On an earlier thread, it was pointed out that the WACO ELECTRONIC HOLOCAUST MUSEUM is claiming that McNultys film is a hoax. They say the film, Waco, Rules of Engagement is some kind of government spin to distract the public from the real facts. Circles within circles gettinga headache.

-- ????? (???@???.???), September 12, 1999.

What was that Churchill quote about Russia?... "A mystery inside an enigma....

"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."

And another that fits the situation...

"In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."

So I guess the USA, England etc. is perpetually at war...

Silly me...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 12, 1999.

I am reserving judgement on whether or not Waco: Rules of Engagement was made for spin purposes. In the meantime, it seems to have done some good. Whether they made the video for that purpose or not, it was rousing to the conscience and soul. It was moving. Once they awaken that in people, it may not matter if they meant to protect the military or not with 'spin'. Outrage, once awakened, may take on a life of its own. Let us hope so. The Museum site also contains valuable information. I sift through everything to find what is true. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater may be applicable here.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 12, 1999.

?????? and mumsie,

I think the Waco holocaust Museum people are being unfair and are misjudging the situation to call "Rules of Engagement" a hoax or spin. "Rules of engagement" told a lot of the story to be told, and has done a lot of good, but according to WHM it doesn't go far enough, and leaves out some important damning details. Well, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't; wouldn't suprise me if it does. But for WHM to say that this makes the film worthless or intentionally deceptive, is stoopid. It would be like Gary North saying that Ed Yourdon's y2k work is a hoax and a fraud because it doesn't go far enough. Well, maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but such infighting between people who's opinions are relatively close is counterproductive, and it's childish to accuse someone of being a plant just because their opinion is only 90% as full-on as your own.

-- number six (iam_not_a_number@hotmail.com), September 12, 1999.

Andy - "The news media should be demanding that the government identify the armada revealed by the radar and explain what it was doing. Those with the most clout didn't cover the news conference. They haven't learned Waco's important lesson -- the bigger the crime, the bigger the cover-up."

The news media should be demanding???? That's assuming they aren't part of the coverup.

Mumsie and others.. re Rules of Engagement... I think the film very much did some good, but after seeing the Waco Holocaust site and some others I can see their point. While pointing to wrongdoing of one sort they ignore much more serious wrongdoing of another sort, and thus divert attention from the real story.

Today I have seen some truly beautiful examples of disinformation in my paper and on tv. First is the media blitz of Danforth making the news talk show circuit. He starts out sounding very sympathetic to the cause of exposing government misdeeds, but within a few minutes I had come to the conclusion that he must have gotten his B.S. Degree from JRSU (Janet Reno Stonewalls U). First.. he hasn't done anything yet, so why was he making the talk show circuit? Must've learned that from NERC. Remember how they had several stories out within the couple of weeks before the June 30th deadline telling us that the results would "allay our fears"? I wondered at the time why they didn't just wait until the results were in. The point was to get the spin maching going full blast... same thing now with Danforth. And over and over he refused to give an opinion on whether or not "bad things" had happened.. why? (any of you who have sat through a lecture at JRSU know the answer).. because he/she has to "gather all the data". (translation.. all info will disappear into a black hole).

Now about the 2 news articles in today's Sacramento Bee (couldn't find either on line.. sorry). One was from the Wall Street Journal though - "Why did Reno wait 6 years to seek the truth?" by Alan A. Stone. The other was a VERY interesting piece (disinfo wise) "Ex-ATF agent has new assignment: Teaching" by Gary Delsohn. Both started out with a similar tactic (also used by Rules of Engagement me thinks)... get the reader to think you are on their side.. that you believe bad things were done. The article on the ex-ATF teacher went to some length to convince the reader that this ATF agent was not like THOSE OTHER GUYS... why he actually went to college at the same time he was training... his coworkers didn't like him.. why?.. because of his intellect. Why he even wore bow ties to meetings, unlike his "blue-collar" coworkers. Got the picture net nerds? He's one of US! But what IS the point of this article anyway? Why in this back-to-school time did they decide to profile THIS teacher? The headline on PAGE TWO of this lengthy article tells us... his "book has a section on WACO". And what's the message from this ex-agent who is more like US than THEM? The FBI and ATF made huge mistakes, (see... he's one of us.. agrees with us)... the biggest one in not believing they would be ambushed by members of the religious cult. But he defends the ATF for its original determination to execute a search warrant on the compound once its informants learned there were more than 100 machine guns and hand grenades inside.

"I readily tell you what happened was screwed up," said Vizzard, "but I can't honestly tell you how to do it right." ATF conceded in the aftermath of Waco that it never should have tried to serve the warrant once the Branch Davidians knew it was coming."

Notice the loaded words? Notice there is no mention of the military? No mention of the bulldozing? No mention of the bodies in bits and pieces? No mention of the hospital being notified ahead of the fire? You are just left with the impression from this ex-agent (who really is a nerdy intellectual like us) that it was all just a horrible boo-boo.

Similarly the first half of the "Why did Reno wait 6 years" article tells you that the author was on a panel of 10 experts in religion, law enforcement, counterterrorism and psychiatry" which met at the behest of the Justice dept. in July 1993 to make recommendations on how do "deal with future Wacos". And the author was frustrated, really pissed off, that the Justice dept. wouldn't hand over the data requested. (okay buddy.. I feel your pain... we hate when that happens.. we're on your side).

Then comes the nugget: "All this is grist for conspiracy theories - but those theories are misguided. This is the result NOT of a government at war with its people but a tragedy of errors: religious zealots expecting the Judgement Day, grandstanding ATF agents who made Koresh's prophecy come true, a struggle within the FBI between mediators and warriors, military advisers who overstepped their role - all this taking place as the Clinton administration was appointing new and inexperienced people to run federal law-enforcement agencies."

There you have it... oopsie. Just a "tragedy of errors"... oopsie.

See the pattern with "Rules of Engagement". Like Cory said.. making a flippy motion with a hanky. Look over here... here's the problem. Meanwhile the military involvement disappears. The bits and pieces of bodies disappear. The hiding and destruction of evidence disappears. The fraudulent warrant disappears. And most important... the involvement of the highest levels of the administration, the FBI and the DoJ disappears.

Now think about the recent impeachment shenanagans. Who was one of the first people to mention the "I" word? George Stephanopholus (sp?). One of Bill's own until just recently... supposedly turning on the hand that fed him. Oh really? Or was that also just "making a flippy motion with a hanky"... which spun us off into Monicagate when we should have been worrying about murder and treason not trick cigars. Everyone knew from the get go that there was no way the American people would support impeachment over sex. But now there is no way he can ever be impeached on anything else. Its like an innoculation. He's immune now.

Smoke and mirrors. Flippy motions with a hanky. Community Conversations where the public is not invited (NYC). Articles that claim to reveal but only obscure.

The Emperior has no clothes. I'm finding it harder to be amused though.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 12, 1999.

Linda - the answer to your question about the media being in on the cover is to be found below... (BTW the answer is yes)

"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes." Benjamin Disraeli, first Prime Minister of England, in a novel he published in 1844 called "Coningsby, the New Generation" "The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans. " British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, 1876

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." Woodrow Wilson The New Freedom. (1913) "In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press....They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers. U.S. Congressman Oscar Callaway, 1917 "What is important is to dwell upon the increasing evidence of the existence of a secret conspiracy, throughout the world, for the destruction of organized government and the letting loose of evil." Christian Science Monitor editorial, June 19th, l920 "The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties." New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922 "From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire." Winston Churchill, stated to the London Press, in l922. "We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world. Professor Arnold Toynbee, in a June l931 speech before the Institute for the Study of International Affairs in Copenhagen. "The government of the Western nations, whether monarchical or republican, had passed into the invisible hands of a plutocracy, international in power and grasp. It was, I venture to suggest, this semioccult power which....pushed the mass of the American people into the Cauldron of World War 1." British military historian MajorGeneral J.F.C. Fuller, l941 "For a long time I felt that FDR had developed many thoughts and ideas that were his own to benefit this country, the United States. But, he didn't. Most of his thoughts, his political ammunition, as it were, were carefully manufactured for him in advanced by the Council on Foreign Relations One World Money group.. Brilliantly, with great gusto, like a fine piece of artillery, he exploded that prepared "ammunition" in the middle of an unsuspecting target, the American people, and thus paid off and returned his internationalist political support." "The UN is but a long range, international banking apparatus nearly set up for financial and economic profit by a small group of powerful One World Revolutionaries, hungry for profit and power." "The depression was the calculated 'shearing' of the public by the World Money powers, triggered by the planned sudden shortage of supply of call money in the New York money market......The OneWorld Government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank." Curtis Dall, FDR's son in law as quoted in his book, My Exploited Father in Law "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson." A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, November 21st, l933 "The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes. Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952 "Fifty men have run America, and that's a high figure." Joseph Kennedy, father of JFK, in the July 26th, l936 issue of The New York Times. "We shall have world government whether or not you like it by conquest or consent." Statement by Council on Foreign Relations member James Warburg to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950 "Today the path of total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by the Congress, the President, or the people. Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government a bureaucratic elite. Senator William Jenner, 1954 "The case for government by elites is irrefutable" Senator William Fulbright, Former chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, stated at a 1963 symposium entitled: The Elite and the Electorate Is Government by the People Possible? "The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nationstates involved. As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future." U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his l964 book: "With No Apologies." The powers of financial capitalism had another farreaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds' central banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups." Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time (Macmillan Company, 1966,) Professor Carroll Quigley, Georgetown University.

"The Council on Foreign Relations is "the establishment." Not only does it have influence and power in key decisionmaking positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also announces and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one world dictatorship." Former Congressman John Rarick 1971

"The directors of the CFR make up a sort of Presidium for that part of the Establishment that guides our destiny as a nation." The Christian Science Monitor September 1, l961 "The New World Order will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down...but in the end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault." CFR member Richard Gardner, writing in the April l974 issue of the CFR's journal, Foreign Affairs "The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control...Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976 "The planning of UN can be traced to the 'secret steering committee' established by Secretary [of State Cordell] Hull in January 1943. All of the members of this secret committee, with the exception of Hull a Tennessee politician were members of the Council on Foreign Relations. They saw Hull regularly to plan, select, and guide the labors of the [States] Department's Advisory Committee. It was, in effect, the coordinating agency for all the State Department postwar planning." Professors Laurence H. Shoup and William Minter, writing in their study of the CFR, "Imperial Brain Trust: The CFR and United States Foreign Policy." (Monthly Review Press, 1977). "We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had not subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries. David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991. "The most powerful clique in these (CFR) groups have one objective in common they want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and the national independence of the U.S. They want to end national boundaries and racial and ethnic loyalties supposedly to increase business and ensure world peace. What they strive for would inevitably lead to dictatorship and loss of freedoms. by the people. The CFR was founded for "the purpose of promoting disarmament and submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence into an all powerful one world government."" Harpers magazine, July l958

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all." Strobe Talbot, Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 12, 1999.

Sorry about the formatting,

You can read them on another thread I just started, however this is the piece that caught my eye...

""We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had not subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."

David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 12, 1999.

I agree Linda, but still feel that whether intended or not, the Waco video may have succeeded beyond the point it was meant to, assuming it is a 'control' piece. Once people 'care' again, they will be interested, willing, and ready to hear more information than just spin and control. The whole trick was to get them to care again.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 13, 1999.

Mumsie.. I agree. Worked for me. Rented the video on Liberty's repeated urging here on TB2000. Then started hunting. But in general, things like the newspaper articles I mentioned, and the "independent" investigations, and an easily rented video that tells but does not tell all... they are all kinda like rubbing cortosone cream on a rash. Deals with the irritation of people distrusting gov't, but don't even touch the cause. Wanna take bets on whether Danforth "finds" the missing double metal doors or video tapes, or asks why the bodies are in bits and pieces (and who are they?), or brings up computer discs and octopus, and October surprise and Promis? I think the coincidental timing of the two articles I read and the media blitz on Danforth talking before he had anything to say have laid out the roadmap.. to nowhere. It was all just a terrible blunder. No one's to blame. New administration. They were just inexperienced. Did the best they could. Oopsie. So sorry. We'll do better next time.

But... that said.. it will be interesting to see the sequel to "Rules".. coming out this month isn't it? Watch with "eyes open".

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 13, 1999.

Linda,

agree with you - looks like a whitewash in the making - I just hope McNulty is not pressured into releasing it too soon now and can get all the latest developments on record...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.