Bet that got your attention...................... really, with all the talk today on the threads about the NON-event of the '9' issue, we really need to take a good look at the beautiful piece of psy-ops that have been pulled on the public today. For those of you who are unfamiliar, 'psy-ops' stands for Psychological Operations. A favorite pastime of our government,i.e. messin' wit' our collective heads. Lets face it, in society today, not much more exerts more pressure to 'fall into line' than peer pressure. From the time you are a child, to the time you are an adult, peer pressure is the one everlasting factor that we seem to have overlooked in the recent media blitz. I've seen plenty of threads asking why? Why are they making such a big deal of the '9' issue? Why are they trying to not raise people's awareness? Simply put, it's the easiest way to attempt to get people to fall in to line behind what years ago would have been refered to as 'Party Doctrine.' Being different, looking different, or having a different point of view is viewed as unacceptable by the collective. In the case of those of us who contribute to these threads, it could be said that for our "Doomer" point of view (I think of myself as only a moderate doomer, if even!) is the reason we -might- have problems at the end/beginning of the year. Examine the words used in context to those who are preparing, or have some form of contingency plan, 'Hoarder', 'Doomer', 'Radicalist', 'Survivalist' Not very pleasant eh? Look even further and most of the media blitz on Y2K issue never seem to let you forget the 'Militias, Hate-Groups and White Supremacists' are lumped in with the 'sadly misinformed' I don't consider myself or my family to be a member of ANY of these malignant terms/groups. The media is hyping/has hyped the 9999 issue in the affect that since nothing would happen, it allows them to point at those of us who would prepare and go "...Look!...Look at the funny man!!!..." I know that the primary motivator in their attempts discredit us is to SHAME us into feeling foolish about our plans to prepare. Don't fall victim to the media blitz. Many people I know who were tottering on the indecisive side of the house were waiting to see how this day turned out. With the "See, nothing happened, Nothings GOING to happen." is more than likely going to push the indesicive into ceasing their preparations.

Now, don't interpret this thread wrong. I don't believe there is any vast 'X-Files conspiricy out there to rob us of our freedoms ect ect, I just feel that the majority of the nation would rather bury their heads collectively in the sand, and not deal with this until the absolute last minute. Anyone who lifts their head up prematurely is an open target for their scorn. Do not allow the ignorant to rule your life. Protect your family, and yourself. Do the right thing. And don't worry, if everything goes to hell in a handbasket, the media and those who pushed the "Don't worry Be Happy" cause will find themselves on the short end of a rope...

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), September 09, 1999

Answers

A sometime thread on this forum dealt with "disinformation", and propaganda. When I was in high school back in the 60s-70s stone age we actually got to talk about that loaded subject of propaganda/advertising. Seems to me this is the thrust of the question "what are the govt/media/experts saying."

Here is a reference site on the politician credo of disinformation.

Disinformatio n Rules

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 09, 1999.

Billy-Boy,

9/9/99 was the next to last opportunity for the powers that be to use these kinds of propaganda techniques around a live date. (The last will be 10/01/99 - federal fiscal rollover, which is probably more likely to cause problems than 9/9/99.) The timing is such that it is right after Labor Day, people are back from vacation and are starting back into the "real life" swing of things. The date looks sexy to read, and may even invoke metaphysical connections in the mind.

It's the perfect strawman. I doubt that 10/01/99 will get much press, although that might be the date that many cities begin their media campaigns to urge people to start buying a few extra cans of Ravioli- O's, you know, for a 3-day storm.

The NERC drill today, and the way the press was allowed to represent it as a grid test, was also timed for propaganda value, and a beautiful job of it was done.

Personally, I think Joseph Goebbels would be proud, and George Orwell would be ill...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), September 09, 1999.

pshannon,

As of last year I'd heard our local red cross had plans for a local 'preparedness fair' scheduled for this October.

-- flora (***@__._), September 09, 1999.

Billy

You said "Look even further and most of the media blitz on Y2K issue never seem to let you forget the 'Militias, Hate-Groups and White Supremacists' are lumped in with the 'sadly misinformed'"

I sure hate it when they group us militia(wo)men in with the "sadly misinfomed". We read quite a bit in this unit, and I understand it's the norm for many militas across the country.

Oh, and wait until my buddy Chuck finds out he's part of a White Supremacist organization. In fact, You can tell him because that will make him madder than when I called him an Afro-American. Boy, does he hit hard. But he helped me up as he admonished me for hyphenating his proud nationality. I thanked him for correcting my poor grammer. (Chuck is 6'7" and the name Charles does not appear anywhere on his birth certificate. We call him "Chuck" because that's what he does to people who cross him). But you seem to have figured out the word association games played by our national spin masters.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 09, 1999.

Most the worlds known and unknown thinkers and do-ers rarely aspired to be... normal or just average.

Peer pressure and tribal thinking (as defined by Carolyn Myss) only works on those who dont kick over the traces. Y2K homework, study and realizations force the aware to choose between believing in group think or following your own intuition and guidance. It comes down to the difference between belief and first-hand knowledge/experience. (Same as recognizing... no one else can eat for you).

Sadly, looks like the D.C. web-spinners will keep on keepin on. But, I do get a chuckle now and then thinking of lifes ironies... early on came across references to their concerns about the wildcard nature of the internet. LOL... they funded it. Just as the DoD pushed the two-character date standard.

Cheers... to all the worlds mavericks!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), September 09, 1999.

eyes open,

Wow, you're in a milita? Is it true that you're plotting to overthrow the government? Do you have lots of explosives and stuff in your house? How come you have a black guy in your "unit?" Everyone knows you are all racists. Don't you all raise money by fraud and bankrobbing? Aren't you all fundamentalist christians who want to force everyone to go to church?

Sorry if this is blunt, but if you were just ordinary patriotic citizens exercizing your right and duty to protect yourselves and your families from all enemies foreign and domestic, the newsmedia would have told me that, wouldn't they? They wouldn't just tell lies about people like that, would they?

Beaver

-- Beaver (beaver@tooken.com), September 09, 1999.

one more -little- thought on a quote I just remembered....

"The great mass of people...will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one." - Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), Mein Kampf, vol. 1, ch. 10 (1925).

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), September 09, 1999.

"Number nine...number nine...number nine...number nine" - Beatles "Revolution" midi file

9/9/99 may have been an excellent psy-ops strawman, but it certainly wasn't the only form of disinformation we have seen. The "meme" planted early on that Y2K was a hoax and all hype was a doosie! The gov't certainly got its money's worth out of that one. (was that a Rendon Group bit of genius? Or who DOES deserve the kudos - or Cujos - for that one?) Saying everything is fine here but we don't know about OTHER countries (ignoring the global interconnectedness of our economy) was a clever ploy. Using loaded words to turn preparation from a desirable activity to a downright dangerous and insane activity was mentioned above. Another we seem to be seeing lately is the effort to link Y2K concerns with a desire to commit suicide. And of course the very presence of pollies and debunkers on these lists is a good example of disinformation at work. Anyone who truly didn't think Y2K was a problem wouldn't spend their time with it. What about bankers? Writing sermons? PLEASE! And the whole 2-3 day snowstorm idea... must've been because of bankers worries. And early on we had a couple of bogus reports of people having their life savings - which they had withdrawn due to Y2K concerns - stolen from under their doghouse. What about the *private* security companies like Global Options who consult with gov't to promote the idea that we face a HUGE risk from all sorts of terrorism come Y2K. And they just happen to have a plan that will only cost a few million or billion to provide the needed strategy to deal with all that terrorism. Planted disinformation. Lots of it. Government effort or private industry? Both probably. Good for banks. Good for business. Good for government control over the sheeple. Don't I wish that much creative thought had been put to use in trying to solve the problem.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 09, 1999.

Faux nievety, it fits you Mr Cleaver. I like it.

Billy-boy... may I call you Billy? Thanks.

(rant on)

Conspiracy theories come and go. But the fact remains, there are conspiracy theories. They are sort of like Y2K, nobody knows if that is true or not. IMHO, there is some meat to some conspiracy theories. Never discount the intuition of a collective of individuals, especially individuals with the independent spirit not unlike the forefathers of this country. People who take something like 010100 seriously, and actually setup to be ready "just in case" are the epitome of the original Americans. They are prepared for "whatever may happen".

(rant off)

Propaganda from TPTB is always weighed and measured carefully. The "homer majority" swallow it whole like a fish.

You didn't know you were hanging out with a bunch of troublemakers did you? We are the slime of the earth, or that is what Billy Jeff and friends call us. I prefer the term, "the prepared ones". It is much more "e-prime"...: )

I appreciate your post...

tail waggin'...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), September 09, 1999.

Beaver

"Is it true that you're plotting to overthrow the government?" Not so long as we have the peaceful means for change.

"Do you have lots of explosives and stuff in your house?" Does the gasoline in my car count?

"How come you have a black guy in your "unit?" Everyone knows you are all racists." Either were not racists or we decided that Chuck is so big he can join whatever unit he wants.

"Don't you all raise money by fraud and bankrobbing?" We all work. I'd say definatly "no" except there a few NT system administrators amoungst us. Accepting payment for that might be considered fraud.

" Aren't you all fundamentalist christians..." No. Two Jews, three atheists, a few Catholics, Methodists, Baptists and Kristen who plays with crystals and eats rabbit food. (we haven't figuered Krissy out yet, but she's committed to keeping the same rights we are so she is in. And she pointed out harvest ladle/breedlove to the two GIs in the unit!). "...who want to force everyone to go to church? " Just our own kids so long as they live under our roofs. If we believed in forcing our views on other peoples children we would join the NEA.

"Sorry if this is blunt, but if you were just ordinary patriotic citizens exercizing your right and duty to protect yourselves and your families from all enemies foreign and domestic, the newsmedia would have told me that, wouldn't they? They wouldn't just tell lies about people like that, would they?"

It may be possible that certain elements grouped militias with groups like White Aryan Race and Aryan Nations in the minds of some journalists. And since we both train with firearms it may not be obvious that there is a big difference in our respective goals. At least not to people who view life with 10 second film bits and sound bites. People who have looked even moderatly hard have figured us out. And remember, Mr. McNulty who produced the Waco documentries is a journalist. He was involved with (produced even?) Crossfire. There are still some good journalists. (Pssst. There are even a few good LAWYERS left!!)

Our method of changing government so far involves alot of research and letter writing.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 09, 1999.

hey there eyes....

I can't believe that someone like you would even stoop so low as to include - -shudder- - the ...ulp...-gag-...lawyers....

How could you? LOL

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), September 09, 1999.

I need clarification.

What is: An ordinary patriotic citizen?

--She stirs the pot while standing upon the hill in a sheet.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 09, 1999.

Donna

You asked the perfectly reasonable question "What is: An ordinary patriotic citizen? ".

I'll give it a shot. By definition, ordinary means common, Patriotic, means loyal to ones nation, and citizen means you are a resident who is supposed to participate in, or at least pay attention to, the nation that you live in and how it is administred.

We can quibble on patriotic. For instance, are you patriotic if loyal to ones government? Or should you be loyal to your people? I myself am loyal to our constitution, and any government who upholds it. I believe that our constitution, if followed in spirit as well as word, will ultimatly benefit the people of my nation. But the constitution does not exist in a vacuum. If there is to be a government to uphold it, that government must be elected by the people. And those people, in order to elect a government that will strive to carry out constitutional law, must pay attention to what transpires in our nation. Simple, no? No. Because the constitution is a living document. It has provisions in it to change, so it is entirly possible that a majority of people could vote in a governemt that constitionally changes the constitution to something that people like me find unacceptable. What it all boils down to is, I was born in to a society with certain values and ideals, and seeing the merit in these ideals and accepting the rights and responsibilites given in the contract with my government called the constitution, I am inclined to preserve the society I was raised in. (And if someone could point out where it has got to I would be much obliged!)

Now that was muddled and boring. I hope it helps.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 09, 1999.

Thank you for your answer. My next question is:

Why is it necessary to identify 'ordinary patriotic citizens' when discussing Y2K? Do non-ordinary, non-patriotic people not overly identified with a nation not have interest in survival beyond a potential infrastructure failure? Finally, the real point is: why is it necessary to throw in the obvious-loaded semantic phrase "ordinary patriotic citizen" into the Y2K discussion? Could not people who don't identify with any of those descriptors be as concerned about Y2K?

--She in the sheet asking questions sure to piss someone off.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 09, 1999.

Eyes open,

Here's one explaination of where our traditional society has got to. I have some first-hand confirmation of the most "unbelievable" of the claims made here. Nuff said; separate the wheat from the chaff and do with it what you will:

http://mercury.spaceports.com/~persewen/illum_index.htm

Faux Beaver

-- Faux Beaver (faux@thechildren.com), September 09, 1999.

Cool, fake Beaver dude... I bookmarked that right away. Good reading for later...

scratchin' at the door...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), September 09, 1999.

Faux Beaver, ....whatever 'secret societies' and 'invisible government' organizations exist,...they are as hamstrung by Y2K as the rest of us peons...it is the wall that is non-climbable....I'm sure it pisses them off mightily.

You might share your reference with the rest of us, rather than let us guess and click a link. I am not a scoffer about the invisible 1%....I just don't see that they have any relevance,...they bought the whole computer infallibility deal too....dumb as us....dumb as dirt.

--She on the hill, in the sheet.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 09, 1999.

Donna,

You can only make those assumptions if you are one of them. World Wars, Revolutions and the like have not shifted the wealth of the "1%" for centuries; they play those games for SPORT. They eat their young - if some take a fall, the rest only get stronger. Y2k will shut down the internet, a major boon to the elites now that they've wrapped up print and broadcast media. It will restore the value of gold. Read Andy's posts on the movement in gold. Where is it going? Who will end up "crashing" and who will end up positioned to rebuild? Hint: the rebuilder is not going to be the joe six pack with his twenty gold eagles and his box of shotgun shells. These people... these people ALWAYS WERE "survivalists." Never stopped being. Invented it.

Beav

-- Beav (beav@wallymode.com), September 09, 1999.

Donna,

I think you got tooken.

Beav

-- Beav (beav@wallymode.com), September 09, 1999.

"What luck for the rulers that men do not think." (Adolf Hitler)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), September 10, 1999.

Response to "Lets see how much Embarrassment THIS causes..."

Dear Eyes Open: have you figured out which of you is the government infiltrator/agent provocateur?

-- Spidey (in@jam.commie), September 10, 1999.

Spidey

Yes. He's the one that we assigned all the pamphlet making and Email chores to. (Email is one of the worst because you have to wade through all the hate mail from people who think your Right Wing Crazies. Takes hours) Of course he took it because then he got to see all of our communications and literature. And of course, we found his knowledge of the consitution lacking so I personally tutored him until he could recite the whole thing and tell us what parts cold be referenced where in the federalist/anti-federalists papers. We also improved his shooting skills quite a bit. (To be honest, he's a very likable fellow.)

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 10, 1999.

Yeah Spidey, in fact he takes over the control of the computer farm next week...

Hey eyes did you see that shot he made last week? A 100 yard bullseye with a .45... Man I almost think that was a lucky shot... Has he got that big-ass Blazer fixed yet? He figured out how to put another 25 gallon gas tank on it. The thing should go anywhere... Has he received those solar panels yet? I am curious how big a 500 watt single panel is...

gettin' somethin' to eat....

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), September 10, 1999.