This is the latest on the Waco massacre, courtesy of the inimitable "go star go" This is just today's news. Much more can be found on the freerepublic website at: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37cae2ab6f03.htm

Drudge link 8/30/99 Deb Weiss "At the White House, while the president ducked and covered, his War Room went to work to neutralize the potentially toxic effects of Waco. Their greatest asset was the national press, which crumbled at once into stunning passivity, megaphoning White House spin and trotting out push-polls that asked the questions the White House wanted asked. Did the people blame their government, the polls inquired: or did they believe that David Koresh had, in the infamous phrase, 'brought it on himself'? (This is the language rapists and wife-beaters use, to blame their victims.) Instead of probing the official account and demanding answers to troubling questions (it took the internet to do that), many establishment journalists worked with the administration to silence and discredit its critics. Through the power of the press, they transformed the Davidians from people who (whatever their tics) were mostly sincere, rather sad individuals who simply longed for the communion of faith, into monstrous cartoons -- cultists, child-molesters, subhumans who, having resisted their government, deserved to die..Overnight, the press remade Attorney-General Janet Reno as a kind of secular saint, adored for her mournful declaration, endlessly repeated, that she accepted full responsibility for Waco. She did it, as we know, for the children. Yes. Well. This is the Clinton Era, and 'accepting full responsibility' means never having to say you're sorry..At some point, though, they, and we, will have to come to terms with the fact that on a windy April day in 1993, scores of human souls were condemned to an agonizing death at Waco, on the flimsiest of pretexts, without benefit of trial, for the simple reason that their government had the power to make it happen."

New York Post 8/30/99 Steve Dunleavy "DAVID KORESH, the virus of undeniable evil and madness absent in his voice, was talking as if relating a walk in the park. "I have a bullet wound in my stomach. There is an infant who has been shot to death," he told me. It was shortly after the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms siege, at 9:30 a.m. on Feb. 28, 1993, left a trail of life blood like a Balkan massacre. In an incredible stroke of luck, if that is the appropriate word, we had called his listed telephone number in the Waco compound and he actually answered. I spoke to him about four times that early morning in February, and his second-in-charge, Steve Richards, actually called me back collect and told me the dead infant was Koresh's newborn son."

New York Post 8/30/99 Steve Dunleavy "On April 19, 1993, the country was immobilized as it watched a holocaust unfold and more than 80 people become charred memories. They are, certainly to me, memories of one of the most monumental acts of incompetence of law and disorder that I have ever seen in my life. What was and is important is why, in good God's name, did this moron Reno send in the cavalry in the first place? Don't switch the blame onto the FBI - they're obeying her orders, and she said when she first got the job, "The buck stops here.". The point is, when the ATF tragically screwed up in the attack on the compound in what was later learned to be an orchestrated press release, Reno thought she could get some brownie points. If you had watched that video, you would have seen those giant bulldozers with claws smashing into that compound. I will tell you what caused that fire. That terrible pyre that would be the graveyard of humanity. It was those giant claws that overturned dozens of hurricane lamps, since electricity had been turned off in the compound. In her defense, Reno showed videotape from the super-intelligent AWAC aircraft flying overhead that showed stick figures running toward areas of heat. Therefore, they must have been lighting the fires. No, you idiot, they were trying to put out the fires from the hurricane lamps that were knocked over by these giant claws that were rocking the compound like an earthquake."

8/30/99 New York Post "Janet Reno, in her never-give-an-unnecessary-inch defense of Bill Clinton and the scandals that have plagued his presidency since the beginning, long ago forfeited her personal credibility. These latest revelations demonstrate, unequivocally, that - regarding Waco - she is either complicit or incompetent. Either way, now is the time to take her at her word at least in this respect. "I'm accountable," she said in 1993. "The buck stops with me." It sure does. Janet Reno must resign."

8/30/99 New York Post Deborah Orin "Schumer (D-N.Y.) isn't the first to call for an outside probe, but his remarks are notable because he's a Democrat who normally defends Attorney General Reno and the Clinton administration. .Right after the Waco siege, Reno justified the decision to take action on grounds that children were being abused at the cult compound - although it later turned out there was no evidence that was true. For years, Waco - and the torching of the Branch Davidian cult's compound - has been a cause celebre among conspiracy theorists on the right, but the new revelations have raised doubts among Democrats. ."

8/30/99 Charleston Post and Courier "Enough evidence surfaced last week to make it clear that the public does not have the full story of what happened during the deadly April 19, 1993, federal raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas. The disclosures demand a fresh investigation by an independent panel of experts, as well as new congressional hearings now called for. New evidence makes it obvious that the last official inquiry, conducted by the Justice Department in 1993, was an incomplete whitewash designed to deflect criticism from the department, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Attorney General Janet Reno. .. "It was clearly written to vindicate the attorney general," former Watergate special prosecutor Henry S. Ruth Jr. recently told The New York Times. Mr. Ruth was one of three former federal prosecutors asked by the Treasury Department in 1993 to provide a candid review of the role played by the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco in the incidents leading to the April 19 siege. Unlike the internal Justice investigation, their independent report led to major changes at the Treasury Department unit.. Ms. Reno wants to put the blame on the FBI for failing to tell her about the incendiary devices, and has promised to put 40 agents on the case to find out who's responsible. But any new internal probe will face the same institutional obstacles that the first one did. It is unlikely to focus needed light on Ms. Reno. At one point Ms. Reno said she decided to launch the raid because federal personnel on the scene were tired. That is a very weak premise for taking a major life-and-death decision. At another time she said she had been told the children in the compound were being abused. But then-FBI Director William Sessions contradicted her, according to the Chicago Tribune. She said there was no prospect of reaching an agreement with cult leader David Koresh, a statement that has been contradicted by his lawyers.. She has said she was so concerned about fire in the compound that she insisted non-incendiary means be used to deliver tear gas. But the Chicago Tribune pointed out that no firefighting equipment was on hand as the federal assault began, and that water to the compound had been shut off by federal officials.."

Original Sources (www.originalsources.com) 8/30/99 Mary Mostert "In 1995 I watched, and taped DAYS of testimony during the Congressional Hearings during which Reno managed to say almost nothing - certainly nothing about the involvement of Delta force. There was conflicting testimony about the flammability of the CS gas which, the Davidians claimed, was the agent which killed most of the children, who were underground in a shelter that they believed was the safest area of the facility. Government witnesses denied categorically that a flammable substance had been used and claimed the Davidians had set the fire themselves and killed their own children. I might point out that there are STILL Davidians in prison over this event - after the media had demonized David Koresh, just like they have demonized the Serbs in recent months. . Remember the clip, played over, and over, and over on network news in which David Koresh was saying "I am Jesus Christ?" A lot of talk show mileage was gotten out of the often played remark. However, nothing preceding or following the abrupt - "I am Jesus Christ" statement was EVER played. And, you know why? Because David Koresh was responding to a stupid question by a reporter in which he was stating that "...if that is correct, then I am Jesus Christ." His statement was followed by a burst of laughter because Koresh had put the reporter down. Only, it seems, the reporter had the last laugh because he doctored the tape to Koresh by cutting everything before and after "I am Jesus Christ" and was able to portray him as a monstrous fraud who claimed to be Jesus Christ who raped little girls and used religion as a means of controlling his followers. ."

Original Sources (www.originalsources.com) 8/30/99 Mary Mostert "Now, exactly who was at that meeting? A document, written May 13, 1993 nearly a month after the fiery end of the Waco standoff, giving a synopsis of the April 14 meeting indicates it involved Reno, Col. William Boykin, then Delta Force commander, and Brig. Gen. Peter Schoomaker, then the assistant division commander of the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, Texas, who were the previously unidentified officers who told Reno use of CS gas, a potent form of tear gas, plus then-FBI Director William Sessions, then-Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell, two Army officer and several FBI agents. Boykin and Schoomaker told Reno the CS gas would make the compound "untenable" Who in that group would have been competent to answer the question of how the theology of the Branch Davidians might lead them to react to a military attack by government forces? Was the question merely one of what CS does PHYSICALLY to human subjects? If so, what the question about the effect CS gas would have on the so-called "rebellious religious cult?" What, exactly, did their religion have to do with the decision to gas them? "

Original Sources (www.originalsources.com) 8/30/99 Mary Mostert "While Reno was asking the Delta Force commander what effect the gas would have on Koresh and his band of followers, David Koresh was working day and night on an analysis of the meaning of the "seven seals" of the Book of Revelation in the Bible and what it meant. He had told his attorney, Dick DeGuerin on April 14, five days before the attack began, in a letter that he would "come out" of Mt. Carmel, when he had completed his treatise on the Seven Seals.Former FBI agent Jeff Jamar testified on July 27, 1995 that he would have cancelled the CS Gas operation had there been any evidence that Koresh was working on his Seven Seals treatise following his April 14th pledge to come out and challenged the congressional committee to listen to the negotiation tapes of the last few days. In fact, the negotiation transcripts show that Koresh WAS working on the manuscript and that Jamar's testimony, as well as that of agent Byron Sage, was completely in error on this point. Branch Davidian Steve Schneider, stated clearly on Friday afternoon, April 16, that Koresh had finished the first Seal, was working on the second, and that he had SEEN the handwritten papers, around 28-30 pages, as David was working on them. (Tape 236, p.29). Jamar quoted Steve as saying "I haven't even seen the first one" but he took the quote totally out of context. That quote occurs on the same tape (#236, p.2), and it is obvious that Steve means he had not been given it yet to edit, not that David had done nothing. He further says the editing work will "take no time at all" ."

Original Sources (www.originalsources.com) 8/30/99 Mary Mostert "And what was the search about? Guns. Why did the Davidians have guns? Well, they had a license to buy and sell guns. That was one of the means the group had to support themselves and their families and their buildings. The local sheriff had previously come and gotten their gun, checked to see if any were "illegal" guns, and had RETURNED them. He didn't conclude that any illegal activity was taking place.."

Original Sources (www.originalsources.com) 8/30/99 Mary Mostert "Allen Stone, a contributor to the campaigns of liberal Democrats, film reviewer and the only member of the Justice Department's panel appointed after the tragedy at Waco who had been openly critical both of the federal agencies involved and of the subsequent government investigation, wrote: "Because I was very concerned about the lethal risks to small children of prolonged exposure to CS gas, I asked many questions about the tank plan. Not until William Gazecki's film, (Waco: Rules of Engagement) however, did I learn that the FBI intended to deposit the noxious substance directly on the bunker where they believed the children would be. Nor was I informed that tanks would push down walls to reach that location. The FBI plan in fact imposed much greater risk of loss of life than I was told or had imagined. Gazecki may therefore be correct in believing that some Branch Davidians were crushed by tanks. I had never before considered that possibility." Stone also noted in the review of Gazecki's award-winning film that "The documentary's third kind of evidence is based entirely on heat-sensitive film and an expert's interpretation of it. The expert repeatedly points to flashing lights on the film which he claims are bursts of heat that do not occur in nature and can only be made by automatic weapons. He asserts that those weapons are firing into the compound on the side away from the television cameras. There has already been enough discussion of this heat-sensitive evidence in the media to suggest that Gazecki's expert has given a plausible but not irrefutable opinion. If it is true, then many FBI agents knew about it and there was a massive cover-up." .."

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=1999/8/30/101837 8/30/99 "According to Foster's widow Lisa, the events of April 19 caused the late Deputy White House Counsel "a great deal of stress" and left Foster "horrified." After the Branch Davidian compound burned, Foster told his wife that he felt "everything was his fault." Lisa Foster revealed her husband's deep anguish over Waco to FBI investigators in 1994 as they probed possible reasons for Foster's alleged depression. In May 1995 the Washington Times obtained a copy of her FBI interview, reporting the bombshell under the headline: "Foster Felt Waco Debacle Was 'His Fault.'" The longtime Clinton friend's distress about Waco and his own role in planning the ill-fated raid had not been previously disclosed But according to a then-newly released Justice Department report on Waco, the White House was briefed on the FBI's decision to end the standoff with tanks and tear gas six days before the April 19 conflagration. The FBI met with top Clinton aides Bernard Nussbaum, Webster Hubbell, Bruce Lindsey and Foster for 45 minutes that day..None of Clinton's people present at the meeting voiced objections to the planned escalation, said the Times. The participants made no mention of allegations that Branch Davidian leader David Koresh had been abusing children in the compound -- the reason Attorney General Janet Reno offered later to justify the attack. Foster's death was ruled a suicide by government probers based in part on a suicide note the White House produced six days after his death. In that note one line reads: "FBI lied in their report to the AG (attorney general)." "

Washington Weekly 8/30/99 J Peter Mulhern "In an understatement that would be remarkable even in Great Britain where understatement is an art form, Ms. Reno responded to a question about the effect of disseminating lies for six years by saying: "I don't think it's very good for my credibility." Proof positive that Ms. Reno and her department have covered up key facts regarding the events at Waco is "not very good for [Reno's] credibility. This is sort of like saying that the storming of the Bastille was not very good for the Bourbon family, or that the Hindenberg disaster was not very good for lighter than air travel.Only if an investigation revealed that government agents either deliberately or recklessly slaughtered the Branch Davidians in a fit of fascist frustration and that neither the President nor the Attorney General cared enough to stop them would anyone credit its conclusions. Long before that happens, the Bourbons will once again reign in France.. "

UPI 8/30/99 "Attorney General Janet Reno (Monday) is looking for someone outside the Justice Department to head an independent investigation of FBI actions at the end of the 1993 Waco, Texas, siege, sources tell UPI.. "

Freeper Brian Moseley Fox News Channel 8/30/99 "Just Breaking on Fox. Subpoenas for Texas Rangers and someone named Johnson (attorney?) More as hear it.... " Freeper go star go "Texas Rangers and the U.S. Attorney from Waco. More subpeonas expected. Looking for documents from Rangers and U.S. Attorney about the use of cs gas. Looking to get Rangers special report on the seige. Also new subpeonas to be for FBI and Military."

New York Post 8/30/99 Steve Dunleavy "Waco is redneck country, and the Koreshes of this world were hardly welcome. But even the reddest of those necks would later say: "He used to jog down to this coffee shop from the compound, which was four miles away." In other words, a Boy Scout troop could have picked him up, let alone a bloody battle and a siege that would forever stain Reno's reputation."

Washington Post 8/30/99 Kenneth Cooper "Four members of congressional committees responsible for oversight of the Justice Department, including two Democrats who have been Reno supporters, urged an independent investigation because they believe the latest revelation has seriously damaged the department's credibility.. Hutchinson, on CNN, proposed either a commission appointed by Congress or a House-Senate committee that would not rely on the FBI to do investigative workReno is said to be contemplating an independent investigation that would have either a leader or investigators from outside the Justice Department. The FBI has identified 40 agents who could do the investigation. "At this point, the attorney general is still considering all of her options. We expect a decision shortly," said Myron Marlin, a department spokesman"

Washington Times 8/30/99 Joyce Howard Price "Sen. Charles E. Schumer and Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee, both staunch supporters of Attorney General Janet Reno, yesterday called for an independent investigation of the 1993 government assault on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas. "The FBI had its chance to do this investigation on its own; they clearly muffed it," Mr. Schumer, New York Democrat, said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "The only way to clear the air is to have an outside investigation." "We must bring Americans the truth" about what happened in Waco six years ago, Mrs. Jackson-Lee said on CNN's "Late Edition." The two Democrats are part of a growing bipartisan chorus in Congress for an independent probe of the April 19, 1993, siege at the Waco compound, which ended with a fire that killed 86 persons, including 24 children.

Washington Times 8/30/99 Joyce Howard Price "While Miss Reno insists she was never told pyrotechnic tear-gas canisters would be used by the FBI in the Waco siege, Byron Sage, former FBI supervisory agent who was on the scene in Waco, said yesterday on "Fox News Sunday" it "would have been impossible for someone to use one of those devices without the knowledge and approval of a higher-up." .Sen. Orrin G. Hatch, Utah Republican and chairman of the Judiciary Committee, told Fox "Janet Reno would have been the one responsible . . . who would have had to have authorized the use of those canisters." "There are a lot of people . . . concerned about whether this has been a big cover-up by the Justice Department and the FBI," he added.."

New York Times 8/30/99 David Stout ".But unlike other lawmakers who have called for inquiries into the matter, Schumer, Democrat of New York, did not imply that there may have been a cover-up in the case. Autopsies showed that some died from gunshots (which the authorities have said were self-inflicted), others from smoke inhalation or flames. Investigators said an examination of the ashes showed that gasoline, camp-stove fuel and charcoal lighter fluid had been spread through the interior. . The F.B.I. said last week that internal documents shortly after the Branch Davidian operation mentioned the use of the devices almost in passing. The agency said a closer examination of the paperwork in recent preparation for lawsuits arising from the raid had made it clear that the devices were indeed used.But when asked whether he thought any information was still being withheld, he [Hatch] replied, "My experience with Attorney General Reno is that she never really quite comes out in a forthright way with anything." ."

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), August 30, 1999

Answers

Not for nuthin, but has it occured to you that this is a diversionary tactic. Six freaking years later people. I know it was wrong, but a lot more people are gonna die if we screw up whytwokay than died at Waco. Get preppin and stop screwin around.

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), August 30, 1999.

Many have conjectured that this served as a sort of "test", to see how much our Federal "law" enforcement agencies could get away with. The general apathy of Joe Sixpack, fed by the Clinton administration's lapdog -- the liberal media -- made it possible.

Three cheers for the Texas Rangers, apparently instrumental in providing the documentation (finally coming to light after all these years thanks to a Texas judge's decision) needed to expose these monsters. But will justice actually prevail? (Is the bear Catholic? Is Y2K going to be a bump in the road?)

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 30, 1999.

Wife's great-grandpa was a Texas Ranger. "One riot, one Ranger." Glad they're still on the job.

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), August 31, 1999.

http://www.devvy.com/death_list.html

~A List of Strange Deaths of Individuals Who All Had Verifiable Ties with Bill Clinton

The following list is not some vast right-wing conspiracy. These people are dead and the only common denominator is their relationship to the current President of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton. Some people believe in coincidence, but will they believe in coincidences? You be the judge.

Steve Willis, Clinton Bodyguard. Robert Williams, Clinton bodyguard. Conway BeBleu, Clinton bodyguard. Todd McKeehan, Clinton bodyguard. All executed by gunfire in the Waco, Texas assault on the Branch Davidians. All four were examined by a private doctor and died from nearly identical words to the left temple. All deaths blamed on the Branch Davidians. Amazing that the Branch Davidians could place the gunshots to each of their heads in roughly the same places. Amazing.~

http://www.devvy.com/death_list.html

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), August 31, 1999.

For those who don't 'understand' Waco, imagine how frightened those small children were as those giant claws shook the earth. Or when our government agents played amplified tapes of rabbits being tortured to death. Or when the tanks rammed through and pumped illegal CS gas into their home. Imagine, if you DARE, their horror as they clung to their mothers and screamed for the nightmare to end. Koresh did not cause that nightmare: our government did. Our government has been covering up mass-murder for six years. May Truth prevail. God rest their souls.

-- Spidey (in@jam.commie), August 31, 1999.

Chuck Shumer is a joke. He and Sen. Joe Biden-D-Del should be tried as accessories.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), August 31, 1999.

Besides the needless death of the women and children we now have one of the three branches of our government that can no longer be trusted to tell the truth. And this at a time when they will be sorely needed due to external threats. Remember the American people voted for lies and deception twice and agreed we shouldn't get rid of the cause even when he was caught breaking the law of the land. May God have mercy on our stupidity!

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), August 31, 1999.

If anyone is hoping that Chuck Schumer will lead the charge to get to the truth I would advise you to watch his cionduct during the last Waco hearings. Drawn your own conclusions, but watch what he says and does.

Nuff said.

Keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), August 31, 1999.

If you watch "Waco: The Rules of Engagement" (available here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1567301738/qid=936126262/sr=1-1 /002-8361019-0512261 ) you can see Schumer haranguing witnesses for the Davidians, claiming that "not a shot was fired," during the final seige, among other lies. Immediately thereafter you see the Fed's own Forward Looking InfraRed footage, giving Schumer the lie.

Schumer is the High Priest of socialist gun-grabbers.

And he was a real bastard to those Congressional witnesses, too. He ought to be called for the way he treated them in the first investigation.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), August 31, 1999.

This book, Why Waco, is considered to be one of the definitive reviews of this entire situation. Taking no sides, the authors present a balanced collection of information that anyone with a serious desire to understand this tragedy should read.

(Snip/review)

The 1993 government assault on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, resulted in the deaths of four federal agents and eighty Branch Davidians, including seventeen children. Whether these tragic deaths could have been avoided is still debatable, but what seems clear is that the events in Texas have broad implications for religious freedom in America. James Tabor and Eugene Gallagher's bold examination of the Waco story offers the first balanced account of the siege. They try to understand what really happened in Waco: What brought the Branch Davidians to Mount Carmel? Why did the government attack? How did the media affect events? The authors address the accusations of illegal weapons possession, strange sexual practices, and child abuse that were made against David Koresh and his followers. Without attempting to excuse such actions, they point out that the public has not heard the complete story and that many media reports were distorted. The authors have carefully studied the Davidian movement, analyzing the theology and biblical interpretation that were so central to the group's functioning. They also consider how two decades of intense activity against so-called cults have influenced public perceptions of unorthodox religions. In exploring our fear of unconventional religious groups and how such fear curtails our ability to tolerate religious differences, Why Waco? is an unsettling wake-up call. Using the events at Mount Carmel as a cautionary tale, the authors challenge all Americans, including government officials and media representatives, to closely examine our national commitment to religious freedom. James D. Tabor is Associate Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte and the coauthor of A Noble Death: Suicide and Martyrdom in Antiquity (1992). Eugene V. Gallagher is Professor of Religious Studies at Connecticut College and the author of Expectation and Experience: Explaining Religious Conversion (1990). | Published: APRIL 1997 | 260 6.125x9.25 | Subject: RELIGION | Rights: W | ISBN (cloth): 0-520-20186-8 | ISBN (paper): 0-520-20899-4

-- You (should@read.this), August 31, 1999.

Warning: the Webpage for Senator Schumer has an annoying prompt box which asks for your name and then pastes into the greeting. Impressive bit of programming... 8-}]

Bio for Senator Charles E. Schumer

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), August 31, 1999.

I own the "Waco:The Rules of Engagement". I am from New York. I would like to show Chuckie Schumer what a flash-bang really will do to a human body by taping one between his legs, pulling the string and running. Then we'll see if he is right about them being harmless devices or not.

-- Brent James Bushardt (brentj@webt.com), August 31, 1999.

The book recommended by "youshouldreadthis" is typical thinktank-spawned "spin." It holds Koresh's dirty laundry up to the light in a pseudointellectual effort to smear him, and justify the federal mass-murder. Note that the author is an "expert" on religious cult-suicide. Another apologist for what we now know was murder, feigning objectivity while holding Koresh's religious beliefs to scrutiny. Religious beliefs, and sexual practices, are very stimulating and conducive to malicious gossip - but they cannot mitigate what the ATF/FBI/DeltaForce did to those people.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), August 31, 1999.

Liberty -

Have you read Why Waco?. I ask because the comment area at Amazon seems to indicate that it doesn't "justify" anything:

wendyalliston@yahoo.com from Cambridge, MA , April 24, 1998:

Moving

Exhaustively researched and sensitively written, this book gives humanity back to the Branch Davidians who Perished in the Waco tragedy, and to those struggling to pull their lives back together in its wake. The author guides the reader through a wealth of information, sorting truth from misconception. The story will draw you in, and you will realize that what happened in Waco was, in part, due to our own prejustice and misunderstanding of marginalized groups. This book is truly an invaluable experience, sure to broaden your understanding not only of the people involved, but of the tragedy itself, its context, its meaning, and its legacy...

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), August 31, 1999.

Thanks, Mac. I was a little too hard on the book. But at this time, when we have photographic evidence of ATF/FBI/DeltaForce setting the blaze and shooting at the inhabitants as they tried to flee, I am not interested in "understanding the Davidians," even sympathetically. What we need to understand is the mentality of the agents involved, and more importantly, the leadership that put them there. Most of all, we need these facts of the matter exposed, admitted to, and the perps punished in full public view. Until that happens, the academic stuff remains academic.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), August 31, 1999.

Anyone care to place a bet that this won't EVER be resolved? There will never be justice done. What about Ruby Ridge? Forget it. The very fact that the public *needs* to be pumped up about these crimes is more criminal than the crimes themselves.

"Excuse me America. So sorry to interrupt. Would you be so gracious as to put down your Whopper long enough to hear about this?" The response will ALWAYS be, "Wow. That's awful. Something ought to be done about that. May I please have my Whopper back?"

The Grandfather shot twice in the back, could have easily been one of us. The Stitts family will be ripped off and everyone will continue to hit the drive-up.

Anyone who speaks up on behalf of this country's Constitution is attacked by rabid sheep dripping green froth, and accused of promoting terrorism and being subversive to our government.

And the beat goes on.........

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 31, 1999.