24 Children Murdered - Hunt for Killers Continues

By Weldon Clark http://www.calnra.org 8-25-99

To anyone who prizes his or her freedom, Waco needs no introduction. But you do need to know about recent developments in the investigation of the matter. The need is especially clear since most of the national media have been working hard to ignore the story--despite its listing on AP and UPI wire services, and discussion in the Washington Times, the Washington Post, and other sources.

First, there have been lawsuits filed by families of those killed at Waco and by some of the survivors. The suits were transferred to Judge Smith, the same judge who sentenced some of the Davidians to long prison terms, and is generally thought of as a very pro-government, very anti-Davidian judge. The government of course moved to dismiss the cases. To the surprise of many, Judge Smith refused, leaving open such claims as the Davidians' assertion that the government shot at people leaving the burning building. This, Smith stated, had at least some evidence to support it, and if proven would "shock the conscience of the court."

Judge Smith must have been startled at the next development. Without warning, the Texas Department of Public Safety appeared in his court. TDPS announced that the Texas Rangers (which are part of TDPS) had two large rooms full of Waco evidence that had never seen the light of day. It explained that members of the public--documentary producer Michael McNulty and attorney David Hardy--had been asking for copies, but that when it offered to make them, federal agencies forbade it. Yet when McNulty and Hardy asked the federal agencies for copies, the same agencies claimed that they couldn't give them because only the Rangers had control over the evidence. TDPS added that it did not want to be responsible for withholding the evidence, hinted that it did not trust the federal agencies to have it, and offered to file the entire mass (estimated at twelve tons of material) in court!

Things became more lively when TDPS explained just what was in the evidence. TDPS commissioner Jim Francis said that it contained government fired projectiles, which appeared to be pyrotechnic (that is, fire producing). It appears to this author that may prove that FBI started the fire that killed 74 people, including two dozen children. He allowed he was no expert, but said the evidence would be at least "problematic" for the FBI's position. (The projectiles, fired from the FBI's M- 79 grenade launchers, including pyrotechnic CS gas rounds. These expel the CS by burning a mixture similar to black powder, and are stamped with warnings that they cause fires and may not be used against buildings.) The evidence was so sensitive, Francis explained, that he had instructed the Rangers to keep FBI out of the evidence locker until it could be secured with the court, and he had ordered the Rangers to commence their own investigation.

The revelation of hidden evidence must have shocked Judge Smith, hitherto seen as very pro-government. He issued an order accepting the Ranger's evidence. Then he issued a second order, which is utterly unprecedented. He ordered all federal agencies to turn over to the court all evidence "in any way relevant to the events at Mt. Carmel [the Davidian building]." No one had even thought to ask for such an order; in a civil case, judges just don't order all the evidence turned in, whether it has been subpoenaed or not. An anonymous law enforcement authority was quoted in the Dallas Morning News as predicting that "The Justice Department is going to have a fit!"

That's a safe prediction. Attorney Hardy's Freedom of Information Act suit drove ATF to admit that it had three and maybe four video cameras filming what happened at the Davidians' front door, and likely showing exactly what had happened when the first shots were fired--but ATF claimed all copies had vanished. So had an infrared tape of the building, which would conclusively show if and when the Davidians fired. We may now know exactly where those tapes are sitting, and exactly why they've had to be hidden for six years.

Now for the things we can't talk about--or, at least, things were we can only reveal part of the story. Michael McNulty, producer of the documentary "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," is producing a second documentary. If the first one was stunning--it won an Academy Award nomination--the second one makes it look mild. With solid evidence, most of it from the government's own files, he shows that the FBI may be guilty of lying, perjury, and homicide. He found the 40 mm Pyrotechnic shells, and tied them to the fire. Retired FBI and government sources agreed to talk. The picture that emerges is even grimmer than we might have thought.

Some Davidians had claimed that FBI fired into the building and shot at people who tried to escape. McNulty has uncovered STRONG proof that the statements are true. FBI infrared tapes, far better than those shown in his first documentary, show not only the FBI gunshots but also the FBI shooters. A law enforcement videotape shows the muzzle flashes. Internal FBI reports confirm that gunfire was heard from one of their sniper positions. This is only a tiny part of the new evidence McNulty has uncovered, but it should give you a guess as to what the rest is like.

Here are just some of the indictments, each carefully documented, that McNulty's new documentary will level. Yes, there is a reason why 74 people burned rather than escape the burning building. Those who came out the back way--away from the media cameras--had been shot as they tried to get out. Yes, the "brave federal agents" got trigger- happy. Yes, a federal agency levied war against American civilians--including two dozen children.

McNulty showed his documentary to Congressional staffs recently, and the effect was immediate. Congressmen and Staffers were seen leaving in tears, others in angry determination. Now there is talk of new congressional hearings- done the right way, for once. The Washington Times carried the story under the headlines "The Waco Cover-up Begins to Unravel."

Sources close to the case demanded anonymity to avoid Judicial Reprisals. The Waco dam is cracking, and we need your help to break it wide open.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 27, 1999

Answers

And the beat goes on. And the truth shall set you free. God will never let such an unjustice not be exposed. Salt and light Award to McNulty

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), August 27, 1999.

Thanks Andy, a SAD day in the history of our country. I believe there are MANY more revelations to come with regard to this Administration.

The BIG question in my mind is WHY NOW?? Why is WACO resurfacing in August of 1999??

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 27, 1999.

Koresh's crime's: ALLEGED child abuse(and everyone in the compound let him do it?), Weapon's violations(2nd ammend. doesn't apply anymore), He refused to come out(BINGO, That's the ticket).

The mass murder was a result of bruised ego's. Koresh was known for constantly going into town for supplies. Here's a friggin clue- Instead of killing(directly/indirectly) a boatload of people, send one of your crack undercover goons in as a store clerk and jump his ass when he buys toilet paper. Idiot's

They obviously didn't want just him, no one is THAT stoopid. Sorry Pro, no tinfoil here just logic.

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), August 27, 1999.

They obviously didn't want just him, no one is THAT stoopid. Sorry Pro, no tinfoil here just logic.

-- CygnusXI

They obviously didn't want him 'alive' maybe?

-- truth (unknown@this.time), August 27, 1999.

Andy,

Have you seen WND today? Several stories unfolding on Waco, including the fact that Delta Force had an active role in assault. How can that be justified? BTW, I enjoy your posts...thanks!

-- Sharon (sking@ranger.cc.tx.us), August 27, 1999.

Then there is the Detla Forces thing. Survivors report mean in black going up and down the halls before the fire broke out. Miltary forces CANNOT be used against civilans without the official okey dokey from the president.Will this lead that far?

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), August 27, 1999.

It's coming out now because of preparations for the wrongful death suit. The posted article explains the sequence of events pretty clearly.

The book by Dick Reavis about the Davidian tragedy is very good and informative. I used to work with him and trust his integrity completely.

The thing about the entire episode that gets to me is when I think about preps. What IF there were a need to protect my home against gunfire from outside? What IF I used bales of hay to cover the windows and walls. What IF I were using oil lanterns for light and camp stoves for cooking? After the house burned down they'd say I had used accelerants for sure.

-- mommacarestx (harringtondesignX@earthlink.net), August 27, 1999.

Meanwhile, back at the White House...

"Hmmm. Let's see. What will happen now?

Will the national media pick this up? Maybe. See how this can be marginalized.

If the national media DOES start to run with this, what to do?

Anyone need a good bombing? Nah, that's starting to wear thin.

We need a crisis to divert attention. The terrorist angle? We scheduled that to explain away possible Y2K errors and get the benifit of more police powers. Did we lay enough of the groundwork (meaning inject in to the public percetion) to jump on that this early? Put it down as a "maybe".

Or do we suddenly find that Y2K IS a problem and raise the alarm on it? Hmmm. Let's look at that. On the plus side, the groundwork is done. It would just take a few pronouncments from John K that problems have been identified to reverse the party line. And we could say that business was witholding information and we need more governemt oversight to combat that in the future. The best part is that the solution could require emergency powers. And the constistution can be suspended under martial law. But the market would tank, our economy is holding up the rest of the world right now and public reaction could not be counted upon to be advantageous to us. This option is dangerous.

Can we put this off until Y2K arrives and continue on schedule, blaming terrorists for Y2k failures AND disrupting any judicial investigation? Heck, we've gotten away with so much, let's go for it. See what can be arranged to keep this out of the news. Get to our supporters in the media, bend ears, twist arms. Somebody get me the dept. of diversions. "

Now, really keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), August 27, 1999.

It should make everyone feel much better about the FBI's involvement in the Stitts problem. They only have 6 children. Hmmmm, then what happened at Ruby Ridge?

Anyway, we preparers have nothing to fear, right?

"cowering in churches waiting for the world to end...determined to buy desert land and hoard gold, bullets and Skoal in their pickup trucks."

William Jefferson Clinton

Fifth Millennium Evening at the Whitehouse

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 27, 1999.

Surely this can spin for just a few days till Sept. 1st.

-- mommacarestx (harringtondesignX@earthlink.net), August 27, 1999.

It is so sad- but we knew this the whole time didn't we? do we really think they set fire to their own compound with the children in it and wanted to burn to death? The sad thing is, we can no longer trust our government- haven't been able to for awhile now. And at any time, our gov't can decide that we are 'dangerous"- and then we get the same treatment as at Waco or ruby ridge-still don't understand why any of these people had to die- having offensive beliefs is not a good enough reason.

-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.net), August 27, 1999.

Many answers can be found by viewing the Academy Award-nominated video "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," now at most video rental stores or available on the web. The proof is there. Even the current Federal admissions of guilt are cover-up and spin, when you see the truth in this film.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), August 27, 1999.

Andy,Liberty, and others.

Your insistence that the government committed mass murder at Waco is irresponsible at best and criminally stupid at worst. Let me throw out a couple of items for your Waco database.

(1). After the ATF agents were killed (Thats killed as in DEAD), there were numerous occasions where people left the Davidian compound with messages from Koresh to the authorities. In these drugged-out ravings, Koresh proclaimed that none of his followers would surrender and would die first. These messengers, two of whom went back and forth a few times, told the FBI and others that Koresh and some other hard-liners were seriously messed-up on drugs and there would be no rational solution coming from inside the compound.

(2). As a result of these reports, the military hostage rescue teams were called in as advisors. Congress made this possible over 20 years ago and it has always been on public record that the 3 Delta Force personal were on-site, as well as the National Guard. This is allowed when drugs are involved. Now, give me a break, I am not suggesting that drugs were the major issue here but the reported usage by eyewitnesses gave the authorities a reason to call-in the military.

(3). Koresh let it be known that he had ordered caches of explosives to be strategically placed in order that the entire compound could be destroyed and take many of the surrounding forces with him and his people at the end. This information resulted in the authorities taking measures that they had attempted to avoid.

STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS.

Remember Jim Jones? Another whacked-out freak who saw his show coming to an end. Did he tell his followers that he had decided to commit suicide and anyone who wanted could leave on their own free will? Did he give those poor people a chance to livean option to take their freedom and leave? HELL NO AND NEITHER DID DAVID KORESH. He and his small group of enforcers, drugged-up and sparks flying from their heads, kept all of those poor children, wives, fathers, and others from leaving the compound and took away their lives.

IT THAT SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR YOU BLATHERING IDIOTS TO UNDERSTAND? I cant wait to read your posts on this. Show the world how stupid you are with your off the wall crap that has no basis in reality. Rave On!

-- For (your@info.com), August 27, 1999.

I knew it at the time -- just by the way it was covered -- no media allowed close -- only government handouts to TV.

Discussion in company (a major telephone company) lunchroom I was on contract with at the time was overwhelmingly in favor of the government getting those "wackos."

Sheeple. They need to be converted to mutton.

Janet Rhinohaunces is "shocked, dismayed, disappointed" (whatever) about the revelations. I can imagine; she would prefer it to have been kept swept under the rug.

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 27, 1999.

I meant "Janet Rhinohaunches"

To "For Your Info": Even if you say is true, so what? Some people maybe have more balls than the rest of us and are not willing to go quietly to slaughter. The question you have to answer is: What the f* were the Fed pigs doing there in the first place? If you think the Feds were justified in being there at all, you are just as much of a fascist as Rhinohaunches, the FBI, The ATF, whatever.

Those who know of my other posts know that I have zilch sympathy for the rantings and agenda of wacko Christians (or any Christians), but supposedly, in this country, we have a right to be left alone. Of course, there's always the specter of "child abuse" (save the children, sob sniff snuffle), arms stockpiling, whatever, that are now justifications for "Big Brother" to roll in with SWAT teams and tanks.

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 27, 1999.

For Your

I followed the coverage of the standoff like a hawk. Saved all the press clippings I could find. The only drugs that were mentioned was the meth lab. And even the feds found in the first investigation that there was no meth lab. I would need some proof of some kind before I believed that. Where should I look to find it?

And the press reported that the feds told them how the Davidians practiced mass suicide. But up until about ten days before the fire, the feds said the BDs planned to shoot themselves by swollowing a pistol barrel. If they actually practiced this relativly painless way to kill themselves, why should I believe they would then choose fire? Sounds slow and painful.

And I would still like to know why the feds bulldozed the parts of the building that weren't buring back in to the fire. They needed that evidence to prove thier version of events. It was a crime scene in any case.

Keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), August 27, 1999.

Trust me on this 'A', whacko assholes like you will not be left alone, not in the U.S. or anywhere else. It's called waste management.

-- For (your@info.com), August 27, 1999.

For your@info -

I have never seen or heard such information as you present in reference to the Waco incident. Please be so kind as to provide some location as to where such info comes from. I would very much like to know the Truth about such an event.

oh, and to use your own words----STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS.

-- Brent James Bushardt (brentj@webt.com), August 27, 1999.

The words of "For":

>Trust me on this 'A', whacko assholes like you will not be left alone, not in the U.S. or anywhere else. It's called waste management.

So, those who are "whackos" are "waste" to be disposed of? The "Whackos at Waco" were certainly disposed of. Who's next? Any other apocalyptic christians, like the 7th Day Adventists? Assembly of God? Jehova's Witnesses? What about orthodox jews? Conservative Catholics? Certainly, in your world, anyone who disagrees with the government or blows the whistle on any kind of coverup or abuse of power can be readily classified as "human waste." Let's follow this to it's logical conclusion. Who will be left standing? If people like you are allowed to determine what ideas are "whacko" and what aren't, what ideas, religious beliefs and political opinions might NOT, at your convenience or whim, be deemed "whacko?" Who WON'T you kill for being different from you?

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), August 27, 1999.

PROOF? yeah - "for your info" will really come up with proof to back up his ramblings. i'm counting on that about as much as i count on y2k being no big deal. as if!

-- need info (l@l.l), August 27, 1999.

the government had no business being at waco in the first place. who were they harming? Same with ruby Ridge. Next time it will be you or me- we're rather "dangerous" here us doomers you know- gonna cause bank runs and panic, and hoarding and who knows what. gotta get them under control before it spreads to the rest of the country.

anyone is in danger with a government that feels enabled to act as they do in our country. anyone who acts different than Joe sixPac, thinks different, visits "interesting" web sites, practices non-mainstream religions- anyone.

Janet Reno should resign. this happened under her watch as did the cover-up. I'm sure she is "shocked and dismayed". If she had any sense of rightousness, she would leave imediately. but then again, that doesn't seem to be a trend in our current government-

-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.net), August 27, 1999.

Latest on Drudge:

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX FRIDAY, AUGUST 27, 1999 19:04:52 ET XXXXX

PAPERS: DELTA FORCE ADVISED RENO TO USE GAS ON DAVIDIANS

According to publishing sources, the ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION will report on Saturday: Army terrorist experts, including the commander of the top secret Delta Force unit, advised Attorney General Janet Reno to use CS gas against Branch Davidian members!

AJC's Jeff Nesmith is first to report that members of the secret Delta Force, whose presence at the fatal raid was disclosed this week, were" involved in planning" the operation."

Nesmith names Col. William G. Boykin, the Delta force commander, and Brig. Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker, then a member of the First Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, Texas, as the previously unnamed military advisors who advocated the use of CS gas, a potent form of tear gas.

Boykin and Schoomaker, Nesmith reveals, were also members of the failed Iranian hostage rescue mission in 1980. Both have since been promoted since Waco.

Developing...

=====================

Has "Girlfriend" been playing golf with O.J.? There's no such thing as Delta Force. But if there is, there were only three of them there and they were only watching. ["I like to watch." - Chauncy Gardener] Okay.. maybe it was 10 or 14 "watchers", but they never fired anything in there. And if they did they were not incendiary. "I did not want those used. I asked for and received [from those non-existant non-active watchers] assurances that they were not incendiary." And of course those non-existant non-active watchers, nor anyone else would have used biological or chemical weapons against the citizens of the United States. That would be against the law... and I AM the Law Girlfriend.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), August 27, 1999.

Liberty, I think you had it right on that other thread, where you told me you thought that "For" was in the government. When he can call humans "waste" HE is the one to be afraid of, and he is showing his colors in that statement. Thank you for yours! And all of your really-truly American posts. Unlike some fascist posters...

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), August 27, 1999.

Just did a search and apparently Col.Boykin retired as a Brigadier General. Gen.Peter J. Schoomaker made some interesting comments here back in 1998. Here is his promotion announcement from Sept. 16, 1997.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), August 27, 1999.

His 1998 comments sound an awful lot like he views information as, literally, a weapon; and he views the world as his battlefield. What are the implications of that for Freedom of Speech? Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), August 27, 1999.

"For Your Info": You have shown yourself to be a government pig (or quisling). Exactly which government agency do you work or freelance for? (Psst! You can tell us, we won't squeal.)

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 28, 1999.