The Institute for Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE) sent an Open Letter to Congress on June 9, 1999 expressing the perspective of that organization concerning the seriousness of Y2K. The letter includes a description of Y2K and the embedded systems crisis as "non-solvable" and as a "crisis". It also states that the crisis has not begun to get the attention it deserves. (A copy of the Open Letter can be seen at

( http://www.ieeeusa.org/FORUM/POLICY/99june09.html.)

This is from http://www.gwu.edu/~y2k/keypeople/gordon/

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This is SERIOUS folks. I might not be listened to (despite my 24 years experience) but you BETTER listen to the IEEE. Navy report, is IMHO, circumstantial evidence compared to this. This is the bloody dagger with fingerprints on it. AND it is available on the web. I have been waiting for a long time for them to confirm this - they now have.

Listen DGI's , Polly's or whatever. DONT take my word for it, DONT take Gary North's word for it. DONT take CNN's word for it. TAKE THE WORD OF THE ENGINEERS WHO BUILT THE SYSTEMS AND THEIR PROFESSIONAL BODY.

I know someone out there will rationalise and deny this, but I beleive that of you ignore THIS EVIDENCE that NOTHING will convince you of the gravity of the situation short of a miracle.

This is the last time I am going to waste my breath on Pollys. Anyone who is SERIOUS about Y2K, drop me an e-mail and I will send some documentation [soon] as how to alter your worldview with respect to the Y2K risk. I have been preparing for 18 months, and I have a wealth of experience but I do not have a financial 'hidden agenda'.

Whatever your worldview, thank you for taking the time to read this.

-- Rob Somerville (merville@globalnet.co.uk), August 26, 1999

Answers

Rob, as I recall, this was already discussed on this forum. The position of the pollyannas, as best as I can remember, was that it was written by lawyers and thus had to seem rather scary, rather than the Brimming With Good News document it would otherwise have been. (As Dave Berry would say, I am not making this up.)

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), August 26, 1999.

Jack -

Sorry if I am preaching to the converted, but I know many GI's and Polly's lurk & post here. I have since posting seen a few other references to Paula Gordon's work here, so I am probably laying down the issue with a trowel.

All I will say in my defence is that I have been a steadfast 8 for the past 18 months, and I was convinced that I would remain that for the rest of the duration. As an engineer by profession, I respect the IEEE as they have NEVER cired wolf and have ALWAYS expounded an issue with clarity, objectivity and professionalism. A statement like this from them is irrefutable. It is akin to a car mechanic at the main dealer telling you that the engibe of your car is shot. You may try in vain to get a second opinion, but any engineer worth his salt is going to tell you the same. Anyone who tells you about the suspension, the seating or the headlights has an alternative agenda.

I apologise for my rantings ..... I am very angry at the moment about all the LIES that are banded about concerning Y2K. As Paul Milne has said, this will KILL people.

Thanks Jack, and my apologies to the group if I've wasted bandwith flaming - but I had to get it out somehow !!!!

-- Rob Somerville (merville@globalnet.co.uk), August 26, 1999.

Not to nitpick too much, but people should be aware that the information about embedded systems that usually gets quoted and linked to around the internet is from the IEE (Institution of Electrical Engineers), a British organization, not the IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers).

To my knowledge IEEE has not put out any sort of data about the embedded system issue that is comparable to what IEE has done. In fact, I found very little on the IEEE web site about Y2K at all.

-- Peter Harlan (pharlan@efn.org), August 26, 1999.

Well, Peter, try your luck at the link provided by Rob at the top of this thread!!! I think you will get lucky!!! (Gawd!)

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Your Majesty:

Whoops! I just did in reverse the thing I was writing about. I've seen so many references to IEEE that were really to IEE, that my eyes played tricks on me, and I didn't notice the url pointing to IEEE this time.

Okay, I'll check it out. Thanks!

-- Peter Harlan (pharlan@efn.org), August 26, 1999.

For Nitpickers

IEEE (USA) http://www.ieeeusa.org/FORUM/POLICY/99june09.html IEE (UK) http://www.iee.org.uk/2000risk

-- Rob Somerville (merville@globalnet.co.uk), August 26, 1999.

Sorry Peter - My 'grin' after Nitpickers was not parsed .... I am NOT implying you are a polly ... You should have an HTM copy I mailed you....

-- Rob Somerville (merville@globalnet.co.uk), August 26, 1999.

King of Spain

Do you like dwarf-throwing contests?

-- Dwarf (with@huge.one), August 26, 1999.

Aloha Rob: Thank you for posting this. One more document to add to my "K2Y Marketing Plan for Friends and Loved Ones". This is my strategy: I've taped the "Invasion of the Millineum Bug" which aired on PBS the other night. True, very tame stuff, but perfect for those who still think that if they don't have a computer, they don't have anything to worry about (yes, plenty of those). Step two is distributing some of the postings I've found here, especially the ones that can be verified. Because the group I'm marketing to is fairly fragile, I start with the least alarming and gently build up to real eye openers. I don't know, I don't have much time to try to educate these people, and there's a lot of them! But I do love them and feel the effort is worthwhile. I'm hoping that if I can get the best information to them possible, much of which I find right here, I'll have helped somehow. I sure hope so.

TO EVERYONE WHO POSTS HERE: MAHALO NUI LOA

TO KING OF SPAIN: PLEASE don't be into dwarf throwing -- Aloha:)

-- grngrl (jhandt@gte.net), August 27, 1999.

oops -- I mean Y2K (long day!!) : )

p.s. kos -- no, i'm not a person of small stature, but some of my best friends are and while they hate being tossed about, they love mud wrestling. :)

-- grngrl (jhandt@gte.net), August 27, 1999.

One of the primary thrusts of the IEEE letter was the legal implications of Y2K failures. The letter supported legal "immunity" for firms. And here's a question the fatalists never answered:

Why worry about legal problems if the world is supposed to end?

The IEEE letter presupposes a functioning legal system, ego a functioning economy and society.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), August 27, 1999.

Mr. Decker:

While I don't agree with your stances, you are very level headed in your presentation. However, the last post was troll-speak. You gotta quit dumping us all in the 4th standard deviation of the forum bell curve. Given a "5" on the y2k scale, the legal system will still work, life will go on, civilization won't collapse, and, for many people, it will certainly feel like TEOTWAWKI due to lost jobs, deflated securities, and limited availability of goods and services.

Best regards. Dave

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), August 27, 1999.

Oh Yes we remember this document.

I believe---if I'm not mistaken---Mr. Decker was refuting it's Technical message. His point being that this was pure litigous hocus pocus for the courts.

"The internal complexity of large systems, the further complexity due to the rich interconnections between systems, the diversity of the technical environments in type and vintage of most large organizations and the need to make even small changes in most systems will overwhelm the testing infrastructure that was never designed to test "everything at once".

-- David Butts (dciinc@aol.com), August 27, 1999.

Rob,

This is indeed a valuable read, and whether it's been linked before is less important IMHO than that all the newbies and info gatherers who may just be starting to get nervous about Y2K, have something credible to read from the professional orgs. who are willing to offer a message that contradicts mainstream media and press releases.

In that vein, anyone who has not looked at the Naval War College Year 2000 Project (there is alot there, but I go peck away at it when I cannot get on here) should check it out. Find it at www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/6926/y2ksite.htm

Note the "Group Systems Input for 4 March '99", Section A - What Advice We Got Right, for instance. There are items referring to "what to tell the public", and reference to growing conflict between the Owls and the Roosters who are responsible for national level political and financial policy, and who totally disagree on this.. This project report is both on topic and thought provoking reading, especially now, as more testing is done/not done/fails.

-- Kristi (KsaintA@aol.com), August 27, 1999.

Lawsuits will go on because lawyers are like cockroaches, able to survive and florish in the most despicable conditions.

-- Observer (Seen 'em@Close.up), August 27, 1999.