Even if you think y2k is going to be a bump, there is good reason to prepare. No one knows the status of military y2k compliance, not even Maria. Mutltiple uses of NBC weapons will bring JIT deliveries to a standstill. It is plain foolishness not to prepare.

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Yeltsin is ready for battle, are you?

) 1999

When Boris Yeltsin arrived in Kyrgyzstan on Tuesday, reporters asked about his health. Yeltsin answered the reporters, saying, "I'm in fighting form, ready for battle, especially with Westerners."

Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov tried to translate Yeltsin's remark into more diplomatic language, saying that Yeltsin "was talking about the fact that ... there is an ongoing struggle over the future global order. China and Russia and a lot of other governments are for a multi-polar world in the interests of all states."

In other words, according to Russia's foreign minister, the United States wants to dominate the world and dictate terms, making other countries serve America's national interest.

Given this extraordinary statement about America's position in the world, we should ask ourselves: Is this really true? Are we a kind of empire, greedy for hegemony and world domination?

There are those in America who think that we have become a threat to peace. These people are disgruntled by internationalism in American foreign policy, they are distrustful of Washington, and they hate American big business -- pointing to our recent intervention in Kosovo. In fact, these people sound a bit like the Russian and Serbian Communists in their rhetoric.

Is America an imperialistic country as the Communists have long claimed? Does America conspire against the good people of the world? Is America forcing other countries to serve its interests?

On the contrary, a case can be made that the United States doesn't even serve its own interests. In terms of Kosovo, America gained nothing from the intervention except an ongoing headache. As for what America lost, there was a huge price tag on that intervention. We were forced to convert a large number of nuclear cruise missiles into conventional cruise missiles, decreasing our nuclear war readiness. We also lost the good will of the Russian people, who are now prepared to vote for the Communists, neo-Communists, and nationalists in the upcoming elections.

Is that how you dominate the globe? Is that how you force other countries to serve your interests? What was President Clinton out to gain by his Balkan adventure? There was nothing to gain. Perhaps we won the good will of the Albanian people, but how is that going to help us as Moscow and Beijing draw ever closer at the summit in Bishkek? It may be controversial to say this, but the real threat to world peace lies in Moscow and Beijing, as they continue to funnel weapons of mass destruction to rogue states like North Korea, Iraq, Iran, and Syria.

Ironically, one of the things discussed in yesterday's meeting between the presidents of Russia and China, was how Moscow and Beijing might oppose U.S. plans for a theatre missile defense. Meanwhile, General Anatoly Kornukov, chairman of the coordinating committee of the united air defense system of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), and commander in chief of Russia's air force, has been leading a military exercise called "Comradeship-in-arms 99." It involves several "former" Soviet countries, including Russia, Belarus, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. Kornukov's war game is meant to test the CIS air defense system -- a kind of system unlike any in the world. Its mission is to shoot down American missiles and bombers in a future nuclear world war.

Here is the irony: Russia and China object to missile defenses for America and its allies. At the same time, Russia and its "former" Soviet republics are perfecting their own missile defense systems. This double standard, by the way, is acceptable to President Clinton, who tends to sympathize with the Russians on arms control issues. In fact, Clinton has resisted calls to drop the ABM Treaty which is preventing us from deploying ABMs to protect the United States. If anyone thinks America is dominating the globe and bullying other people, it is time to think again. How can we be forcing our will on other countries when we are unable to defend ourselves because the Russians won't give us permission to drop the ABM Treaty?

Here is a perfect example of America putting the interests of Russia ahead of its own national survival. Russia has been violating the ABM Treaty for many years by deploying between 10,000 and 12,000 ABMs for defense. The United States currently has no ABM defenses, no civil defense shelters, and is extremely vulnerable to missile attack. All the same, Russia wags its finger at us and says, "No, no, no, you cannot deploy an ABM defense shield."

Furthermore, when we try to create a theatre missile defense for countries like Japan, a huge uproar follows. That uproar always comes from Russia and China. These countries do not want America and its allies to be defended from missile attack. And we have -- so far -- gone along with this.

Such a big mean bully we are!

In this context, the idea of some sinister conspiracy by America or NATO against the Serbian or Russian people is off the mark. Whatever we may think of Clinton, he is not conspiring against the Serbian or Russian people. Strangely, he is one of Russia's best friends. Violating the NATO charter and violating Yugoslav sovereignty didn't strengthen America's global position. It weakened NATO even as it bolstered the political standing of the warmongers in Russia and China.

In the last analysis, as you look around the globe, the countries that most often talk about a nuclear world war are those supported by Russia and China. North Korea says the nuclear war is imminent. Saddam Hussein has also intimated that "the final showdown" with America is coming soon.

You have to listen carefully to what is being said. There are dictators and terrorists out there who want to wipe America off the map. Not only do these people thrive, but they are supported by Moscow and Beijing. A thinking person has to ask why this support continues, and why the leaders of these countries have the nerve to level accusations against America.

The Russian leaders have a vicious mentality. Whatever you say, their words and deeds are indefensible. They take billions of dollars from us, and billions in food aid for their people, and they work against us on every front. They speak ill of us at every turn. They conspire to assist those who would destroy us. In fact, they are building a war machine with which to destroy the United States of America.

It is a vicious dog that bites the hand that feeds it.

America's survival is at stake. The threats against us are very real. And that is why it is wrong for Americans to fall prey to enemy propaganda. It is wrong to say that we are the evil empire, that we are planning a world war. The fact is, we have never prepared for a nuclear world war. Our nation is oriented entirely toward economics, not conquest. We are not the enslavers of Tibet or the North Caucasus. We do not run a vast system of forced labor camps.

When Boris Yeltsin says he is "ready for combat, especially with Westerners," Americans ought to sit up and take notice. No doubt President Yeltsin got in trouble with his "handlers" for making the remark, but it was all the more honest for being so spontaneous.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), August 26, 1999

Answers

*******There are those in America who think that we have become a threat to peace. These people are disgruntled by internationalism in American foreign policy, they are distrustful of Washington, and they hate American big business -- pointing to our recent intervention in Kosovo. In fact, these people sound a bit like the Russian and Serbian Communists in their rhetoric. **********

No this are the people that are able to think for themselfs and see

what coorperate creed is doing.

Anyone who is NOT concerned about the aggressive role of the US and its national interest ( which are nothing then the interest of the sponsors of this corrupt so called democratic goverment)is sucessfully brainwashed by the media.

-- justme (justme@justme.net), August 26, 1999.

I think Nyquist's point is that the corporate world is mainly interested in open borders and free trade. The communists want to dominate the world. One is ready to use NBC weapons, the other Gatt and Nafta, and the buying of politicians.

This is not a defense of their greed or even their worldview. Let's call the better of the two evils.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), August 26, 1999.

Yeltsin said: "I'm in fighting form, ready for battle, especially with Westerners." Raegan said: (something along the lines of) "we commence bombing in 5 minutes."

-- R B Hinkley (rbhinkley@yahoo.com), August 26, 1999.

What does this have to do with Y2K? How about sticking to the purpose of this board?

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), August 26, 1999.

Boris Yeltsin is a big, fat, drunken dope addict. He can't even stand up without assistance, let alone think. I wouldnt' worry about that yahoo. He probably forgot what he said.

-- anti-chainsaw (tree@hugger.com), August 26, 1999.

Cody,

Haven't you heard that Russia faces a 'use it or lose it' policy because of their failure to remediate their y2k problems in the military and infrastructures? Their stepped up war plans are the indirect result of y2k.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), August 26, 1999.

Cody----Please don't think the only thing threatening you and your survival is y2k! A computer problem is probably the least of our worries. The Bear is awakening! China is on the verge of using Nuclear weapons against our ships to regain Taiwan. North Korea is about to test an ICBM with the capability of hitting mainland US. Iran just entered a new pact with China to strengthen their missle program. India announces their intention of becoming a nuclear heavyweight (modeled after the US program) and says they are going to develop a nuetron bomb. Pakistan teamed up with China is headed in that direction. Any skirmish on the Korean penisula would instantly go nuclear.Don't forget the middle east, all the terrorists in the world and a few homegrown loonies to throw in the pot.

Y2k ain't nothing compared to what could really happen.

Take your blinders off, dude.

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), August 26, 1999.

1a. Y2K is Real.

1b. Y2K is a sub-set of the Millenium Problem.

http://members.tripod.com/~thepcguru/changes.html

peace, Dan

-- Dan G (earth_changes@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

Things are moving at break-neck speed, it is wise to keep your eye's open to all info, y2k or not. The current event's happening today ARE influenced by the year 2000, maybe not the y2k "bug", but many governments, corporations and individuals have personall or shared agenda's that involve the new millenium(not technically, I know).

Just keep in mind, on any given day you may wake up and turn on the tv to find nothing but Peter Jenning's or Dan Rather going on and on. Except this time it won't be JFK jr. It's unstable.

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), August 26, 1999.

BB this has nothing to do with Y2K. You have no proof that they have not remediated their systems. You have no clue as to the number of weapons systems that depend on a year calculation. "Use or lose" makes no sense but you wouldn't know that because you wouldn't know how weapons operate. Do the warheads just desintegrate because of the rollover? Do the launchers become inoperable just because of the rollover? Do their screens actually start showing US launches just because of the rollover? Give me a break. Please enlighten me on your technical expertise. Oh I forgot it's all interconnected.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 26, 1999.

I'd like to know why the media has been so avidly following the massacres in this country while blatently ignoring the instability in other countries. It's like they want us to see only the evil in ourselves, and be damned any outside threat. Maybe it's because they know we can't protect ourselves, and they don't want to go there? Yeltsin is a dangerous person with dangerous friends and I wait in horror for "playtime".

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

Gia, and his predecessors weren't dangerous? Where was your "horror" thirty years ago? This situation has been around for a long time, nothing new here. As a matter of fact, about ten years ago it was a much more dangerous situation than it is now. Were you as concerned then or did you just not know any better?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 26, 1999.

Listen up gang.....NBC concerns not appro to Y2K discussion?

Biowarfare is a very real possibility in the face of Y2K. To say it's not worthy of consideration can be a very real and potentially deadly form of "Polly-ism". I've discussed this with some folks who are very Y2K savy and active in the community. What was interesting is the level of denial...some folks wouldn't even consider it (fine) and others seemed to get very upset and defensive. Others told me that they wouldn't/couldn't give it any consideration because it was beyond the scope of any preparations they could make.

The Russians and Chinese are getting "chummy" and trying to figure out how to deal with "The Great Satan"...The Chinese have a very large bioweapons program as do the Russians. The Russians have manufactured huge stocks of bioweapons including smallpox, anthrax, plague and a hybrid smallpox/ebola. They also have the delivery mechanisms although the chief bioweapons inspector to Iraq thought that the best delivery mechanism might be a briefcase releasing a biowarfare agent in a large U.S. airport.

Not worthy of consideration? If you say so but is this response based on intellect or fear? The staement Boris made sends chills down my spine. Check out the link to the paper "The Bioweaponeers" at the bottom of the page and also the link to "The Demon in the Freezer", both written by Robert Preston author of "The Hot Zone".

I can't help thinking "Be afraid, very afraid" is good advice in this context. This stuff scares the hell out of me the way nukes never did...And the Russians have 20 TONs of weapons grade smallpox virus....

"Alibek has a Doctor of Sciences degree in anthrax. It is a kind of superdegree, which he received in 1988, at the age of thirty-seven, for directing the research team that developed the Soviet Union's most powerful weapons-grade anthrax. He did this research as head of the Stepnagorsk bioweapons facility, in what is now Kazakhstan, which was once the largest biowarfare production facility in the world."

http://cryptome.org/bioweap.htm

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), August 26, 1999.

Maria,

First, I agree that we are not on the brink of a nuclear exchange.

However, I do recall that the Russia missle launch control does have a doomsday control that goes something like this: The missle silos have controls that periodically check with Moscow or some central command center. If all is well, the silos receive an all clear. If the silos are out of communication withthe command center for some period of time, the silo computers could initiate a deadman lauch sequence as they could assume that Moscow or central command was incopacitated by enemy forces. The Y2K tie in is - what if the Russian iron triangle fails resulting in cutting off the silos from central command?

It is my understanding that this was one of the primary issues being discussed by American and Russian strategic planners prior to ther Kosovo bombings.

Admittedly I have lost track of current information on this issue and would apprciate any additional input you wish to share.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), August 26, 1999.

Maria, at what point would you become alarmed or anticipate the danger of an attack by Russia (or China)? Or do you believe it will never happen? If so, why?

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Bill, there's a man-in-the-loop even in that situation. This is not an automated system response.

Mumsie, As I said above there was a time when the situation was much more grave and yes I watch it very anxiously, planning to move my family if needed. Now I don't believe the timing is right, even with Y2K.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 26, 1999.

Don: Excellent post. You are so correct. I don't know how many times I just kept my mouth shut about these dangers either because I just knew it would be met with denial or fear or indifference. Most just say, well can't do anything about it.

Maria: Let's play nice on this topic, ok? I don't have an axe to grind with you. I want the truth. You're right, I don't have a clue about how y2k will affect weapons systems. But there is evidence that y2k compliance is necessary. Why else would the U.S. ask to meet with Russia? Most say that the radar systems are at risk. All I am looking for is an EXPERT to tell me Russia doesn't face a 'use it or lose it' policy. Until I will prepare according to the overwhelming evidence that Russia is planning and preparing for war. Did you see Cohen's statement that attacks are not 'if' but 'when'.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), August 26, 1999.

Maria, specifically, what are you watching for?

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Maria- Thirty years ago I was more or less starting kindergarten. Ten years ago I was making the rounds at dorm parties, and MTV appealed more than CNN. I've grown up more than I wanted to since then. You?

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

Gia, welcome to the forum.

-- bb (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), August 27, 1999.

Mumsie, sorry, typo, that should have been past tense "watched". I was very concerned at that time, but as you can tell, nothing happened.

Gia, so you finally came of age, how nice for you. But to think that the world has changed because your glasses have changed is childish. My point was not to question your age but to say that the world was spinning long before you noticed.

BB, I've stated many times on this forum my impressions about the former Soviet Union and laugh if you'd like at my credentials on this topic but they simply out weigh yours. That being said I give you my social view of the former Soviet Union.

There are two classes: the haves and the have nots. No other stratification exists, never did. The elite class have all the ammenities while the mule class continue to slave away. If any citizen would speak about Russian the way some people here speak about the US, they would be taken away and never seen again. Now for a dictator to rise up and conquer the world he needs many things, one essential element is the people. Hitler didn't get to his position because people threw rotten apples at him; he got there with the support of the masses. Do you see that in Russia? I don't. I see even the elite defect and become American citizens (son of former leader, case in point). The mule class do not hate the Americans; they truly want our life style. Do you really think they enjoy waiting in lines, having no heat or food (and that's prior to Y2K). Just a simple math calculation says when you start with nothing, there's nothing that can be taken away. This is nothing new. I'm describing the former Soviet Union. Just because the iron curtain prevented our press from seeing this social style, doesn't mean that things were rosy. The iron curtain painted a lovely picture of the Soviet Union which I know was false. (Talk about a controlled media!)

Just a comment on economics. A war or conflict doesn't come without a price. Kosovo demonstrated that poiont. Just because we have a military, doesn't mean it's expendable. For Russia to carry out the kinds of scenarios you guys envision, they need to have an economic backing. You say they have the funds for this; I say they don't. Yes they spend lots of money on defense (and offense). The former Soviet Union spent 90% of its GNP (I don't know the current %) on the military. That's great for building up a defense but the economic stability of the remaining infrastructure of the country gets short changed (sorry for the pun). In other words, this build up has been to the detriment of all other essentials, again, leaving the masses with nothing. Communism doesn't work the way the Soviet Union had implemented it. The Soviet Union died under it's own weight. My impression is that they need to recover first before they can initiate an assult.

Militarily they can crush us and we can crush them.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 27, 1999.

Where are you BB?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), August 31, 1999.