What planet is he on??? I could no more afford to throw around this kind of money around then any other family I know. My friends and I laugh about our unconcern about the money in our accounts vanishing re Y2k because we don't have any anyway.

He's definitely out of touch with most folks on this one.

http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/5791

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Gary North's Y2K Links and Forums

Summary and Comments (feel free to mail this page)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Category: Personal_Preparations Date: 1999-08-13 08:19:05 Subject: A Step-by-Step Program to Get a Back-Up Property in the Next 30 Days, Cheap Comment: Pick a safer region. If you live in a city, this is easy. Toss three darts at a state map.

Visit one town this weekend. See if you like it. If you don't, drive to the next one.

Go to the library. Get a phone book. Photocopy the churches in the yellow pages. Call each church. Ask for the pastor's name.

Go home.

Put this letter into your word processor:

Pastor ZZZ

YYY Church

123 4th St.

Emigration City, State, ZIP

Dear Pastor ZZZ:

My wife and I would like to move into your area. But we're not ready to buy just yet. We don't know the area well enough. We want to look around for a while.

We'd like to live in the country. Is there anyone in your congregation who has a place to lease for a year or two? We'll pay the full lease price in advance.

We'd be glad to help an older couple who may be thinking of moving into town. Or maybe they need someone to keep their place for them, just in case they want to move back someday.

What we would really like to do is lease half an acre with a well on it, or with access to a well, and bring in a clean used mobile home. We'll move it off the property once the lease runs out. That way, the leasing family doesn't have us underfoot.

I know your time is valuable. If you can recommend something like this, and we decide to take advantage of it, I'll donate $1,000 to your church.

We'll be glad to come in and discuss this with you. Just let me know. My phone number is: (222) 333-4444.

Mail it to every pastor in town.

The mobile home will cost you $10,000 to $13,000 (16 x 80). Put in a Lowe's storage building at $10/sq.ft., assembled. Buy a hand water pump. (You can buy it direct for $530 plus shipping from the inventor, W.F. Kile, P. O. Box 77, Zion Hill, PA 18981.)

If you secure a place for 18-24 months, that will take you through the worst of it. If you're helpful to the owners, and you have services to trade, you probably will not be asked to leave in 18 months. Or you can find another place to lease. Move your mobile home to the new property.

I am tired of hearing, "We just can't afford to move!" If you have a pension fund, you can afford to move. If you have equity in your urban home, you can afford to move. Admit it. The problem is not money. The problem is your life style. It's just so comfy.

Take away water or power for 30 days, and it won't be comfy.

(end text)

- Hey Gary. I can't afford to move and neither can anyone else I know. Thats not going to stop me from taking action but this "solution" is arrogant in the extreme. All the people I know who do have their own homes are already mortgaged to the hilt. They have no liquidity. They have kids and debts and cars in various states of repair.

A years lease in advance!!!! A $1000.00 contribution!!!! Get a clue. Only a tiny percenatge of the population could afford your solution. The rest of us ARE too broke to move. We'll be lucky to buy a years worth of beans.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 15, 1999

Answers

Actually, the problem is not only the money. Income is harder to secure. We bought our farm, house, barn and 4 out-buildings, on 10 tree filled acres with a stream, for $45k. My parents payed nearly that much for their last car. Finding employment was the big concern.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

R, we don't have all that cash flow which Gary North has skillfully generated. He has mentioned he's spending $10,000 per month.

Every time he talks about buying essentials RIGHT NOW, well, I must wait for that next paycheck. And then other issues develop and I often don't make the necessary purchases.

I don't have a credit card, but that seems to be how many people can purchase scads of supplies. Maybe they hope the credit industry will tank in Y2K causing their debts to be wiped out.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 15, 1999.

This is one of those STUPID posts that Gary has written. I don't know of anyone with half a brain that would do what Gary has suggested. Besides, it's too late for anyone to move anywhere and be prepared or even get prepared at this point in time. If there's anyone needing a place to bugout to, purchase an RV/travel trailer and have put it in a private campground that is close to a small town that has storage facilities. You may have time to do that, but it takes MONEY and planning.

-- happy trails (happy trails@happytraills.com), August 15, 1999.

Sell your PC and cancel your ISP subscription. Use that extra money for preps. Find a second job to fill the extra time you'll have on your hands from now on.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

-- (just@thought.guys), August 15, 1999.

R, if you live in the Western United States you can get a mining claim on BML land for about a hundred bucks. I plan on happening to be on a claim out in the sticks looking for gold when TSHTF. You can also go to the tax collector's office in Jerk Water County USA, and get a place by paying the back taxes on it.

-- screwfly (screwfly@hotmail.com), August 15, 1999.

just@thought.guys --

No computer and no Internet access?

Oh the horror!

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 15, 1999.

just a thought

LOL!!! I couldn't get beans for this computer and canceling my ISP would only net me a big extra $10.00 a month. If you know of any place I could live with my 2 kids and 15 chickens for $10.00 a month lemme know. I'll pack my bags.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

I chatted with a guy on voice Mplayer, who tried to convince me to buy an old school bus, paint it black and then get a backhole and dig up an area to bury the bus. This was his idea for a back up headquarters. I am not a Malitia person, nor will I ever be,, Seems that was A Waco setting..and There is no way I was heading that way!! Also, I agree, most can't afford Gary Norths all out get ready theory!! WE are in debt just like everyone else with mortgage, and 2 off to college. I am lucky to have 300 dollars left at the end of the month.. Get real Gary North..

-- Cass (american_storm@usa.net), August 15, 1999.

Gary can afford to buy all this stuff because he sells his ridiculuous fear mongering extremism for lots of money.

Most the rest of us have to work for a living. Things aren't black and white.

I disagree that it's too late to start preparing for y2k. It will be easier for some than for oters, another grey area.

For those of us with strong bodies, and an adventurous spirit, it's still possible to buy a small peice of land in the woods, build a cabin (I built my first one in six weekends--never got asked to put it in Better Homes and Gardens, but it was satisfactory for temporary use, until I had time and money to improve it) or a mobile :( or travel trailer, or even a teepee. If you search it may be possible to find a piece of land with a creek or spring, thereby solving your water problems (it's easy to stock up with enough bleach to purify drinking water for many years, at two drops per quart)

For food, hopefully most of us can afford to buy a little bit extra every week between now and when the shtf. Skip those extras, like movies, ice cream, alcohol, espresso, and so forth. You CAN do it. If you believe ANY of the y2k scenarios, you owe it to yourself and your families to prepare as best as you can.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 15, 1999.

If you are expecting to live on a BLM claim, it may be a bit more difficult than you envision. At least in our area, the USFS burned and buldozed all the miner's cabins on gold mining claims. They were given notice, but some didn't pay heed and had all their belongings go up in flames. I believe some are allowed seasonal use of mobile homes, but only insofar as deemed required for their mining operation. Some have had these towed off by the USFS when they felt the service felt they were not necessary and then berms were erected to prevent replacement. Miners are now expected to live in town and commute to their claim.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), August 15, 1999.

R et al, let me make it simple:

... Bad computer code does not care ...

The issue is not what you can afford to do, the issue is will you do what you have to do for you and your family to prepare for Y2K. If you don't think Y2K is going to be more than a 3 or 4, then obviously don't prepare for 5 or more. If you do think that Y2K has a significant probability of being a 9 or 10, then whining about how you can't prepare for it helps nobody, least of all you. I repeat: Regardless, bad computer code does not care about your debts, your lifestyle, your plans. It will work or fail however it was designed to on 1/1/2000. And 1/1/2000 is coming on schedule; in fact, there are only 19 more Sundays after today until the end of this year.

And it certainly should be too late at this point to re-locate, to buy a generator, etc., but the fact is that it is not, thanks to a still sleeping John Q. Public. The ball is in your court.

You pays you money and you takes you chances.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), August 15, 1999.

Gary north has done more for the less then 1% in this coutry who are Y2K savey then any one else out there. We come from every economic level, every intellectual, and last but not least, emotional level. All of what any one person does is in derect per portion to there level of understanding of the overall Y2K problem. Im just a puppy. I have only 1000 hrs in, but I saw enuff in the fisrt 100hrs to start taking action. I now put in 8hrs a day into the Y2K. Todays study for instance was the inte-relationship that just in time manufacturing (JIT) has with the facture tolerance of the food chain. You would be amazed at how little has to go wrong to stop the food getting to your plate. The more you learn, the deeper you dig down inside your seff to do whats necessary, to do whats necessary you need to learn. MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM!! your will is the problem. Do you have the will? do you have the time? Go to North catagories site, and start asking questions. You will start getting answers, then youwill do whats necessary. Whats necessary, every one is different. In my case I had no money, but I know whats coming, adleast in my mind...So I got loans,pay the minumum, then sold the business, sold the house, maxied out the cards, got all the money in one account, then sucked it all leagally out. I have a safe house to go to on the canadian border that sits on 220 acres, no charge, my brothers place. I mite not go, but if certain indicators develope as I think they will by Oct. Im gone, and agian I started once I found out about Y2K with no money! So what do you say, got the balls to ask qwestions? Whats that Biblical frase, oyea, ask and yea shall receive. Good Luck

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), August 15, 1999.

For all of those Tinfoils who say "If Y2k turns out to be nothing,I'll just have a lot of beans to eat next year" this story speaks volumes.

Clearly, people who are listening to scary Gary may be mortgaging their families financial future based on his inanities. Can you imagine how pissed the True Believers are going to be next year when Y2K turns out to be a fart in the wind?

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 15, 1999.

Y2K Pro,

Why does the idea of other people making decisions unlike those that you would make bother you so much? Really. Very seriously.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Y2KPro If your favorite color is green and mine isn't, does that bother you too?

-- Carol (glear@usa.net), August 15, 1999.

Tinfoils Mara and Carol:

The Cult of Doom spends all of its waking hours proselytizing - trying to convince the rest of the world that the end game is at hand. Are you suggesting that those of us who dispute that silly notion are not entitled to the same right?

"Another Polly is dead. Good riddance. The rest will follow shortly anyway when TSHTF.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 15, 1999.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 15, 1999.

Yo

The issue here is NOT is it smart to prepare. Nor is the issue about whether or not Gary North is doing good or evil.

The point is this. These are heartless and stupid instructions. If I was a newbie I might read that and give up. Many many people are in metropolitan areas. Thats what makes them metropolitan. Happily I live in the boonies. If someone can't afford to move then they need better advice than this. If GN is feeling twinges of guilt because he is telling people to act on something they can't do anything about EVEN IF THEY BELIEVE HIM then this is truly a very lame attempt to assuage that guilt.

If he really wants to help people with no money then I suggest he put that cash where his ample mouth is. Not give them facile and arrogant suggestions such as this.

Do I like Gary North? Couldn't say - never met him. Do I respect Gary North? Yes - most of the time. Do I want to live with him? No. Do I want him to show some compassion for all those truly struggling to prepare with NO money? Absolutely.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Y2K Pro: You're really beginning to rankle me, with all your overly broad brush strokes. My wife and I are prepared out the wazoo and still working on it, and we haven't mortgaged squat. Nothing purchased on credit cards, either.

If we're (those of us preparing) are wrong, most of us will just have egg(powdered, of course) on our face. If you're wrong, you're most likely dead.

I'd say I admire your courage, but that would be like saying I think someone is brave, for driving without auto insurance.

R: There's another point that GN is missing. My family, on both sides, come from a rural town, in Kentucky. I know these people. The idea of a bunch of city-slickers suddenly showing up for refuge, would not be viewed kindly. The bucolic image of the small town, where people are all smiles and hospitality, is Hollywood horse pucky. They like their life and view anything new as a potential threat. No, they don't stay hostile forever, but they're very slow to accept newcomers (and would probably only get slower, during a crisis). If you moved there now, you'd still be getting the evil eye come Y2K and would more than likely be a suspect, if any unusual goings-on started to occur.

I'd only move to a small town, if you had friends or relatives there. GN's advice to pick one out at random, is frankly grossly irresponsible.

I'd only make moving, with it's high costs, a high priority, if you live in area where you already feel threatened.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 15, 1999.

The point is this. These are heartless and stupid instructions. If I was a newbie I might read that and give up. Many many people are in metropolitan areas. Thats what makes them metropolitan. Happily I live in the boonies. If someone can't afford to move then they need better advice than this. If GN is feeling twinges of guilt because he is telling people to act on something they can't do anything about EVEN IF THEY BELIEVE HIM then this is truly a very lame attempt to assuage that guilt.

What a crock. It's not GN's problem if they can't afford to prepare. That's their problem. As Les mentioned, there are lots of ways to acquire the money you need, but a lot of people would much rather whine and try and make it Gary's problem. If someone can't afford to move and isn't willing to do what it takes to get the money to do so, then, in Gary's words, "They will DIE." The only "advice" Gary would be able to give these people would be how to best make peace with their maker before they die of starvation or get their heads blown off. Maybe someone should suggest that to him for a future article.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 15, 1999.

Can we be at war with each other? American citizens killing each other because we refuse to give them a bowl of beans and rice? Can we look people in the eye and cast them aside and tell them to get lost or I'll kill you? Where is the comraderie in this country? I'm slowly beginning to change my mind about Y2K and helping people. I can see now where people will be playing a key role in defense of this country and against it's own government.

-- change of heart (changeofheart@changeofheart.com), August 15, 1999.

its @ coming soon

Of course its not Gary's job to do anything for anyone. Again, the point has been missed. You're right he should have just said "make peace with your maker" because THAT is the truth. Not this cr@p.

If he is living in some fantasy world where he thinks that most people can really do this (buy there way into a small town with all their cash) then he is WAY deluded on this point.

I can tell you up here in my neck-o-the-woods that such a maneuver would be looked upon as highly suspect by the locals. It took me years to be accepted into my small community. No one is impressed by money or the lack of it. They watched how I treated my kids, how I took responsibility for my pets and how I responded to my neighbors.

That took time. This approach will not work and yet addresses a very serious issue - one that is exceedingly close to home for me and many others. If Gary wants to deal with this issue then he needs a serious reality check.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Oh goody! Y2K Pro and It's@Coming on the same thread. What a bonus! What a treat! Now we can all sit back and read extremist drivel, from both extemes, all in the same convenient location!
If we can get A and Shadow in here, the party would be complete.

R, just pick a direction and go for it. Keep your eyes on the prize, as the saying goes, and don't let yourself be distracted by anyone who either tells you that your a whacko for making any preparations, nor by those who try to tell you that if you don't prepare exactly as they do, you are wasting your effort.

All any of us can do, is what we can do. The more prep you can do, the better off you are. It's crap to say that anything less than "perfect" prep is worthless.

There are no guarantees. We take each breath, as if it will be our last, and hope that the air is sweet.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 15, 1999.

Don't feel bad, change of heart. You've simply moved into one of the next stages of GI!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

I agree with Pro on this one,...It is quite possible there ARE Y2K sheeple out there. Being GI doesn't save some people from sheeple status. There are those that will follow blindly in any direction. I don't blame Gary for this. It's just a fact. You'd like to believe that everyone is as sensible as any of you are in this matter, but sadly,..some people just want someone else to tell them what to do regardless of what they read.

And he's correct in pointing out that for the many of us that tell him we haven't spent much at all in our preps, there ARE people out there that are spending EVERYTHING they have..their life savings, on this. I understand him completely...this..time.

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), August 15, 1999.

Bokonon,

Thanks for the kind words and good advice. Happily, my preps are going well. Would like to be farther up in the hills but at least there are hills for me to head for (as opposed to being in say - Detroit)

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Well, mayyyybeee, this "arrogant" advice that North is giving is based on a reality: FOUR AND ONE-HALF MONTHS UNTIL Y2K!!! Saying, "Nope, can't do it, it takes TIME to get to know your neighbors and be accepted into the communtiy", may be YOUR way of dealing with this, but possibly not everyones.

Yes, it would be great if only their were more time. If only Y2K were 2 years away rather than 4.5 months. Then one could figure out how to gently and gracefully re-locate (of course one would also have to put up with morons like Y2K Pro assuring us that "Hey, we have two years, of course it will get fixed, and with a full year for testing!"), but that option is not there. Period.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Will--I am a long-time GI, and a short time change of heart. I have to plan and work smarter now because it will be people that will be working for the good of the community that will be created in the midst of chaos. I have to be smarter than the intellectual DGIs that surround me. However, I am the one with the food and ammo, so I shall be the captain.

-- change of heart (changeofheart@changeofheart.com), August 15, 1999.

Oh goody! Y2K Pro and It's@Coming on the same thread. What a bonus! What a treat! Now we can all sit back and read extremist drivel, from both extemes, all in the same convenient location!

And we can read your pathetic holier-than-thou diatribes about how "balanced" you are even though 98% of the population out there who "DGI" would probably classify you as an "extreme nutcase." It's all a matter of perspective, Bokonon. But, of course, one so balanced as yourself should probably already know that.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 15, 1999.

R, Gary North is not "living in some fantasy world where he thinks most people can really do this".

He is speaking to the "Remnant" and knows that even many of them will ignore his advice.

His past appearances on Art Bell's radio shows were made with the belief that the majority of the listeners would take no action.

And he was right.

His next scheduled appearance should be very interesting.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 15, 1999.

Right Randolph

Uncle Gazza is on www.artbell.com on the 19th of august nineteen hundred and ninety-nine :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 16, 1999.

And Gary is still selling two (2) year subscriptions to his newsletter because.......?

-- gary makes (me@laugh.com), August 16, 1999.

because he has a contract with his distributors rolling out to 2001...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 16, 1999.

river.....

got to agree with KOS on this......"yes it would be great if we had more time.....if only Y2K were 2 years away"

(btw, KOS......do you chocolate pudding wrestle?)

granted.....moving into a small community and fitting in can take years under normal circumstances

but we're gonna see a whole lot of "time compression" going on if things get rough

those same "new neighbors" who could afford to take years to get to know you, will find you either helpful or a bother rather quickly

now think about what happens if your neighbors find you a bother....but there are THOUSANDS of them

-- andrea (mebsmebs@hotmail.com), August 16, 1999.

"because he has a contract with his distributors rolling out to 2001... "

And just how long ago did he make this contract? Nice try, but I really doubt your gonna get a cigar.

-- Gary Makes (me@laugh.com), August 16, 1999.

Pas de problem, I have several Moanicas in my humidor... :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 16, 1999.

Yes- but there are cheaper ways to do this if money is an issue. If you have any friends/relatives who are y2k aware- and live on a rural property- see if you can move an RV/teepee/old schoolbus/whatever onto their property. then- stock it up. don't expect to move onto there and have them feed you- contribute more than your share.

alternatively- if you don't have a place like that available- find a small piece of raw land in an area that is cheap and doesn't have strong zoning- then move one of the above shelters onto it.

-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.net), August 16, 1999.

Whenever I read advice to people that says IF they wished to do so, they could relocate, that it is only a matter of will and doing it, I want to SCREAM out loud, "Many of us out here live from paycheck to paycheck, without any savings, and not due to our laxity, but to unusual and difficult circumstances which life dealt to us, despite our best efforts and hard work. I am nearing 64 and I work full-time, and have nothing to show for a lifetime of being totally responsible. Never miss a day at work, live a no-frills life that's extreme, but I only get by, and that barely. In order to prepare for Y2K in the 4-1/2 months that I have been Y2K-aware, I have had to take extraordinary measures, and still cannot do what so many of you can. So not only Gary North, with his advice to those with lots of $$$ is off-base here, but those of you who glibly say that anyone who wishes to do so can move to a safer location! Get real, guys, and see how the other half lives, or more accurately, survives!"

Sorry, but we're talking SURVIVAL here, and some of us are doing all in our power to stay alive through Y2K, and know we may not make it because we live in the "wrong" area...and we don't need anyone else pontificating that we could move if we wished to.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), August 16, 1999.

Actually, I think GN is mostly on target here. Tens of millions of Americans do in fact have 401Ks, whole life insurance policies, and/or equity in their houses, etc. that would be more than sufficient to do something along the lines of what he has suggested here. (Compare that number to the probably less than 2 million people of a wide range of incomes who are currently making serious preparations for Y2K). Now, I would prefer to rent the trailer (paying 6+ month's worth of payments in advance), lease rather than buy land, offer the minister no more than $200.00, etc. The general idea is quite good, though.

I will also freely admit that a large number of people probably cannot do anything more than amass several months of food & water (at most). I can offer them nothing except sympathy, and the hope that they have a theological position that has a hereafter for comfort in early 2000.

However, many of those who think they are in this last category are just plain WRONG. They are unable to do anything significant preps-wise only so long as they try to live, work, and play as they always have. For these people, please, go to the article on my website entitled "Finding Y2K Prep Time & $$", read it AND APPLY ITS IDEAS. I would expect that, if they did this, over 90% of the readers of this forum who have not yet prepared in any significant way could come up with food, water treatment stuff, etc. to last their households at least a year during the next 3 months.

If you choose not to change your lifestyle in order to stockpile for the near-certain famine coming, well, that is your choice. Just don't lie to your fellow posters now, and your starving, hollow-eyed, too-weak-to-cry children early next year and claim that you can't/couldn't prepare. Won't is not the same thing as can't, and does not deserve the same sympathy.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), August 16, 1999.

Gawd, I can't believe some of the squalling and bawling that is STILL going on with this thread. Look, there is a WHOLE FRIGGING FORUM devoted to re-location. Go to www.coolpages.net/2000, and under "Gary North Forums" click on the one that says "Relocate". Lots of people are getting desperate, maybe a GROUP could be formed that could get something going.

Nobody can extend time, not by one second. Nobody can change what is going to happen.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 16, 1999.

IT'S TOO LATE TO RELOCATE!

Well, it's too late baby, now it's too late, but we really did try to make it.........

-- it'stoolatebaby (it'stoolatebaby!@it'stoolatebaby.com), August 16, 1999.