For all you Milne fans, thought you might like a glimpse at just what type of person he is:

http://x32.deja.com/[ST_rn=if]/threadmsg_if.xp?thitnum=0&AN=512834775.1&mhitnum=3&CONTEXT=934721926.1063583755

Needs no words.

-- Disgusted (Outing@disgusted.com), August 15, 1999

Answers

Disgusted,

I think it is refreshing to see someone who tells it like it is. If one doesn't like someone when they're alive, it is highly hypocritical to praise them and say good things about them when they are dead. I will concede that perhaps good manners would be to say nothing at all.

Gerald

-- Gerald R. Cox (grcox@internetwork.net), August 15, 1999.

yes,it's not nice to disrespect the dead.However Milne's personality is consistant.Plenty of reasons to find him unsavory,hypocracy's just not one of them.

-- (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 15, 1999.

Agreed. Another Polly is dead. Good riddance. The rest will follow shortly anyway when TSHTF.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 15, 1999.

I think it goes deeper than that. I often disagreed violenty with Harlan, and we spent long hours hammering out our differences, often at a very technical level. Sometimes we ended up agreeing, sometimes not. But Harlan was *always* willing to listen, and to plead his case based on the facts as he knew and understood them, and to change his mind if his facts or understanding weren't quite correct. All of which made Harlan a valuable ally when he agreed, and a valuable opponent when he didn't (because you could learn from his positions).

Milne is like a math student who is convinced that 2+2=50. He vilifies his instructors in life (they LIE and say it's 4), and he vilifies them in death (they were ALWAYS wrong and said it was 4). Milne has never argued, never listened, never changed his mind, never even tried to understand different opinions or conclusions.

Yes, you can admire the consistency of a brick wall, because it does what it was intended to do. But you can't admire the consistency of a person imitating a brick wall. People are expected to THINK! Harlan Smith did exactly that, all his life. Milne never has, and attacks Harlan (and anyone else) for doing so. And yes, it's disgusting.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 15, 1999.

Milne's a monster.

He couldn't say something like, "It's always sad when someone dies, my condolences to Harlan's family and friends, who will surely miss him. However..."

He's going to spend the next week being all defensive about this. We'll probably never see a post like, "I apologize for my insensitivity towards the Smith family, and Harlan's friends, who will miss him. However..."

(Hint: Milne, cut 'n paste...)

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 15, 1999.

"Another Polly is dead. Good riddance. The rest will follow shortly anyway when TSHTF. -- (its@coming.soon), August 15, 1999. "

The ugliness that is the Cult of Doom. How the Tinfoils support creatures who espouse this kind of base hatred, speaks volumes about your movement. You should all be ashamed - but of course you won't be. "My enemies enemy is my friend" is the cry from the trailer parks of the nation...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmaail.com), August 15, 1999.

He couldn't say something like, "It's always sad when someone dies, my condolences to Harlan's family and friends, who will surely miss him. However..."

If Paul did say something like that, I wouldn't be able to decide if I should laugh, puke, or shout "Troll Alert!"

He's going to spend the next week being all defensive about this.

I doubt it. He said what he needed to say. He's made it clear that he doesn't care what the Pollys think.

We'll probably never see a post like, "I apologize for my insensitivity towards the Smith family, and Harlan's friends, who will miss him. However..."

Not unless Paul suddenly becomes a whiny little crybaby. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

(Hint: Milne, cut 'n paste...)

Yeah, good idea. Cut and paste someone elses idea of an apology and present it as your own, even though you don't really mean it. That's not hypocritical. Nope.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 15, 1999.

Y2K Pro: I agree that Mr. Milne's response does nothing more than illuminate his personality. However, your generalizing about those of us who have some doubts about the Y2K outcome does not exactly separate you from Mr. Milne. Yes, there is a small element in both camps that do not lend themselves to adult conversation and just as obviously they use this forum as a crutch for their own personal problems. Both camps have much to offer. Hate and over-generalization are not part of the scenario.

-- Neil G.Lewis (pnglewis1@yahoo.com), August 15, 1999.

I know nothing about Mr. Harlan. I haven't had the chance to read any of his contributions to Y2K, either in this forum or in any other forum. So I wonder if those that did know him and did read his posts could please tell me how much Mr.Harlan helped in having others prepare?

From what I get to read from Paul Milne, apparently Mr.Harlan did not contribute any. Actually Paul Milne insists that Mr. Harlan dissuaded people to prepare. Is this true?

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), August 15, 1999.

its,

Milne has shown compassion in the past. It's not hypocritical to separate the human being from the ideas, IF one has the capacity to do so. Milne has shown that capacity in the past. He just wants the attention.

(BTW - I tend to agree with Milne's view of things, even though as a person, I think he can be monsterous. I will feel sympathy for his wife and kids, were he to drop dead of a heart attack tomorrow.)

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 15, 1999.

Actually, I don't understand why some of you insist that all people should be delicate and soft-spoken in the face of a death. I'm sure Harlan probably felt the same about Milne, too bad Milne is forced to continue HERE. Harlan's in a far better place IMHO. Grow up, Harlan could care less, from where he is. Why should you, other than to 'use' Harlan as one more excuse to point out how YOU feel about Milne.

Some people just won't listen unless it's coming from a pretty package! Every now and then, my Mother used to wrap the best Christmas presents in the least pretty gift just to throw us off. It always worked! Even adults grab the best looking one first.....

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

And the irony of Y2K PRO pointing out *anybody's* character defect is a scream......LOL

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

George:

Depends on how you look at it. Harlan Smith tended to take each issue, assemble everything known about it, weight it all according to estimates about validity, and draw tentative conclusions. Sometimes he concluded that something was a big, genuine threat. Other times he concluded that something was overblown or misunderstood, and not much of a threat after all. He considered issues on their merits, and based his conclusions on those merits. And if new information became available, he revisited his analysis and sometimes his conclusions changed as a result.

To some (like Milne), this approach is anathema. After all, we can't possibly know enough, in enough accurate and timely detail, about anything to draw firm conclusions. Therefore (according to the Milne mentality), ALL efforts to be rational are idiotic. The truth lies not in the data, but in our faith in catastrophe. Harlan was NOT one of the faithful, he tried to substitute intelligence instead. And we all know that this is the path to error!

So if you believe in calling a spade a spade, Harlan was great. But Harlan didn't call *everything* a spade, he only called spades spades. This was his Great Error according to Milne. To Milne, questioning itself is wrong. Even if you come up with the "right" answers (that is, Milne's answers), the very act of questioning is dangerous and makes you evil.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 15, 1999.

"I don't understand why some of you insist that all people should be delicate and soft-spoken in the face of a death."

For the same reason that we have funerals. For the living who are dealing with their pain, not for the dead, who don't have a clue. Again, separating the person, who leaves behind loved ones, from the ideas that person espoused (ideas that others may violently disagree with), is a sign of maturity. Delicate and soft-spoken are not what some of us "insist" on. Maturity is. Not that we'll necessarily get much of that around here.

The death of someone is always a good opportunity to examine their ideas. However, it's also a good opportunity to examine the frailty of one's own life. This whole damned Y2K is about life. Why would people like Milne debate this so vehemently, if not out of concern for the frailty of life? (and he does show that concern in his insistence that people prepare.) That concern COULD extend to people left behind when someone (even someone we disagree with) dies. This is not hypocritical. After that concern is extended, then we can move on to debate the ideas that the dead person represented.

Is this so difficult to understand?

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 15, 1999.

Thank you for the information Flint, but honestly I feel you didn't even come close to answering my question.

And as enlightening as it is to find out about your opinion of Mr.Harlan's contribution to Y2K, my question still holds Flint:

Did Mr.Harlan lead people NOT to prepare for Y2K ?

Paul Milne says he didn't and that thus Mr.Harlan did harm. What do you think Flint ?

It is a simple, focused question Flint. In view of the fact that you followed Mr.Harlan's Y2K postings pretty much, could you please give me a focused, simple, untangled answer ?

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), August 15, 1999.

Milne has an extremist's personality. He is disgusting and certainly consistent. He's never been civilized in anything I've read of his, I wouldn't expect him to be civilized about an phylosophical oponent's death.

At the other extreme we have the politically correct liars in government. That is even more disgusting to me, as they will CAUSE the death of some people.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 15, 1999.

And the irony of Y2K PRO pointing out *anybody's* character defect is a scream......LOL

Not to mention the irony of Pro getting one right. "It's coming soon" needs a trip to the woodshed for a lesson in manners, along with several others. Knee jerk...well...JERKS do more harm than good to Y2K awareness.

Oh, and just so I don't come off as sounding holier than thou, you can all bite me.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 15, 1999.

Well, clearly Paul has disqualified himself as a future Pope or Secretary of State. As to whether he is a genius or a fool we have only 138 days to find out....(oh, yeah, I am prepping just in case Paul is right)

-- cgbg jr (cgbgjr@webtv.net), August 15, 1999.

Well, I read this far into the thread before I went back and tracked Milne's remarks about Harlan Smith (rest his soul).

From the fury and hysteria of the response to Milne, I expected...what? Milne to have written some vile, disgusting, descriptions about the deceased? Some hideous and probably false character defects of the deceased?

No. It wasn't there. Maybe because I was expecting something horrible it surprized me how tame Milne's remarks were: he said he didn't like the guy when he was alive, and he doesn't like him when he's dead. He also called Smith a "Butthead".

So what? Anybody actually think the family cares?

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), August 15, 1999.

I'd agree Chris.

Paul has NEVER shown much heart. Nor tact.

Don't envy those who have to live with him either.

(To Harlan: You've got a ringside seat now on a broader perspective. Enjoy the adventure of "the other side." Some daze I'd rather be there... than here... as well).

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 15, 1999.

Pro,

"My enemies enemy is my friend" is the cry from the trailer parks of the nation...

Nah....

.

But a son of a son, son of a son, son of a son of a sailor.

Son of a gun, load the last ton

One step ahead of the jailer

I'm just a son of a son, son of a son, son of a son of a sailor

The sea's in my veins, my tradition remains.

I'm just glad I don't live in a trailer.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 15, 1999.

George:

I believe Milne is wrong. Harlan Smith was the man responsible for getting me to prepare. I know he was responsible for getting many others to prepare as well.

Milne says otherwise because Harlan sometimes came to the conclusion that *a few* of Milne's predictions were outrageously unlikely.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 15, 1999.

Why bother with Milne, the dissuader of hope. His inflaming commentary eminating from his barber-polled ideology should be met with deaf ears. Let's move on.

-- Hiway (Hiway441@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Pro, I wonder what you're feelings of Paul will be like in the coming months.I suspect you will get angrier and angrier as the days go by and reality begins to set in.Then and only then will u understand why he is so angry.I personally do not know him,but I get a felling he would the first person to give a helping hand.

-- Drken (Drken@bubble.gone), August 15, 1999.

Milne is a piece of white trash who has yet to be right about anything. He lives off the public dole and my tax money goes to support his sorry self. It's a common tactic of Paul Milne to say that anyone who doesn't agree with everthing that he says (and he has said a lot) has dissuaded people from preparing.

He's trash and those of you who jump on the bandwagon of his crashing the equalvalent of a cyber funeral that he wasn't invited to, to trash a dead man when he could just have kept his mouth shut are just as much trash as he is.

If Y2k is really the threat that some of you think it is and you are prepresentative of the gene pool that will be left around, so much for the hopes of the human race. Some of you display so little of what represents the best in humanity. Paul included. Hiding behind psudonyms may keep your name from becomming public, but everytime you look in a mirror, you know what you are and it ain't pretty is it?

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

No, let's not move on. Over on the other thread Milne talks about Harlan Smith "HARMING" people by dissuading them to prepare. Let's look at what Milne has to say about "the people":

"Just about any sacrifice is worth getting rid of it (federal government) and moving BACK to a Constitutional republic with extremely limited Federal government powers. Even if it means the decimation of the population. If the population is 'content' to live under this tyranny, then they deserve to be wiped out as a result of Y2k. They do not deserve to call themselves 'Americans' because they have not the first clue what an 'American' is." -- Paul Milne, August 1, 1999.

People defend his comments regarding Harlan's passing because they are "consistent." with statements like the one above. Well ponder this: Consistency is not the parameter by which greatness is defined.

-- Ponder (this@night.com), August 15, 1999.

You're right Ponder. HONESTY is pretty high on my list. Ponder that.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

You're right Ponder. HONESTY is pretty high on my list. Ponder that.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 15, 1999.

Sounds like a list of one. Anyway, what does honesty have to do with Paul Milne?

Ponder that.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

I'm upset that Harlan didn't have the decency to hang around for the ROLL! When top quality Pollys leave, it is a sad event indeed.

For what it's worth, I think it will go down about the way the Brits do...No showstoppers in January, but failures building in intensity to max out in the March - June period with a fifteen percent (15%) bankruptcy rate by year end.

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), August 15, 1999.

Forgive my obtuseness, but what does the following refer to:

He'll need a light spring suit.

-- Ct Vronsky (vronsky@anna.com), August 15, 1999.

The embeddeds will provide too many showstoppers in January. The whole outcome of Y2K rests on the reaction of people to the multiple types of failures. How much faith to you have in peoples' loving kindness?

-- h (h@h.h), August 15, 1999.

Maybe Cory summed up Paul best in some of his writings of late:

Paraphrase: "Paul comes from the Poor side of town and is a little more earthy".

It appears that goes for his manners as well.

-- Been (There@Seen.That), August 15, 1999.

Forgive my obtuseness, but what does the following refer to: He'll need a light spring suit.

-- Ct Vronsky (vronsky@anna.com), August 15, 1999. ------------------------------------------------- End quote

It was a reference to extremely warm weather where he was going. Hopefully, I don't have to spell it out any closer for you.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

Been,

Paul's still on the earthy side of town. That's where white trash live.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

It's interesting that the one racial slur that is still politicaly correct to use is "poor white trash".Comes from the prejudiced attitude that whites are expected to do better than other races.You people act as if being a poor white is the most contemptable insult out there.It really makes you feel superior to place yourself over those who live in trailers??What's up with that?

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 15, 1999.

Paul's a jerk and extremist, but he not pretending something he doesn't feel. However, he should have said nothing at all.

Needs a grammar brush up though: "Why is it when somebody buys the farm everyone falls over himself.... (should have been ....falls over themselves, not himself)) Gawd, people who pick about grammar are pains too.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), August 15, 1999.

Will,

What's with the nonscenical retort? Honesty? This isn't even a clever distraction.

The fact remains that Milne is a hypocrite. He talks about Harlan harming people while saying that the decimation of the American population is justified if it goes along with the objectives he wants to occur.

So ponder this: How you view his "honesty" in light of this blantantly hypocritical and contradictrial stance is inconsequential.

-- Ponder (this@night.com), August 15, 1999.

"From what I get to read from Paul Milne, apparently Mr.Harlan did not contribute any. Actually Paul Milne insists that Mr. Harlan dissuaded people to prepare. Is this true? "

When I first heard of Y2K I went to Compuserve. I had been a member for years and had always found the conversations over there to be full of experts. When I got their Y2K forum I discovered Harlan. In the 12 years I had been on CIS I had never run into a Sysop who was so brash. My lord, I am a paying customer and this guy was calling me everything short of an idiot for believing a power company statement!

Because of Harlan I grew up fast. I learned how to analyze Y2K statements, to seperate the wheat from the chaff. He constantly challanged me and made me think about what was going on. For my becoming a "GI", I do credit Harlan. He was not extreme, he was not ranting of a TEOTWAWKI level event, he was presenting me with facts that came from a long and distinguished career.

As for Milne's claim that Harlan told people not to prepare? BULL! Speaking as someone who has read every single one of his posts on Compuserve since June of 1998, this is absoulte bunk! Harlan did believe in preperation, he encouraged others to prepare. NEVER, not once, did he ever say something like "Don't waste your money". I believe it was around 6 - 8 months ago he went through an extended black out, he was thrilled he had some preps in place and he told the entire forum how it was a good time to have preps all the time, not just for Y2K.

So in answer to your question, NO! IT IS NOT TRUE! Up until now I have just put up with Milne or ignored him, now I have seen what a truly disgusting hypocrite he is. He claims to be a Christian and then acts like this? HA! Milne is not worthy to even walk a mile behind Harlan. Milne didn't like Harlan because Harlan was full of facts. Something that gets in the way of Milne's agenda.

So now if you will all excuse me, I have some thinking to do. I have lost someone I respected, and someone that I considered to be a friend. Those of you who idolaize Milne....*shakes head* I hope some day you will see him for what he truly is.

-- mourning a loss (not@achance.com), August 15, 1999.

Zoobie said: --------------------------------- It's interesting that the one racial slur that is still politicaly correct to use is "poor white trash".Comes from the prejudiced attitude that whites are expected to do better than other races.You people act as if being a poor white is the most contemptable insult out there.It really makes you feel superior to place yourself over those who live in trailers??What's up with that?

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 15, 1999. -------------------------- End quote

Well zoobie doobie do, I was raised in the South, so I know all about those racial slurs. The problem with your observation is that "poor white trash" isn't one of them. In Paul's case, it's an accurate factual discreption. He is: A) Poor-Paul can't feed his family without a government handout...B)White-need I find his picture on the net for you to see for yourself?...C)Trash-I mean come on, the man seeths of trashiness. He just went out of his way to insult a dead man.

Now, perhaps you would like to explain why an accurate and factual description of Paul Milne is considered by you to be a racial slur?

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

Isn't everybody missing the point here ? Everyone is entitled to their opinion (Polly/Doomer) and everyone has an individual degree of conviction. Agreed, Paul is short on tact, but we also agree that it tragic news about the death of Harlan. Doesn't this prove we should spend less time arguing and more time contemplating the fact that a) we are all mortal and b) making our decisions based on that ? Harlan's death shows us that we can be taken at any time - pre or post Y2K. He posted what he genuinely believed, like Paul does. I would rather be confronted by the truth from a tactless man than decieved by a silver tongued liar anyday. Once you start character assasination you have lost the argument (and that goes for ALL - polly and doomer alike)....

-- Rob Somerville (merville@globalnet.co.uk), August 15, 1999.

Anyone who dies in 1999 is going to miss all the FUN.

-- gee whiz (cant@hardly.wait), August 15, 1999.

Rob,

That's a nice try...with the character assassination stuff and all. Does doing it to a dead man count? Would you like to post where Harlan actively dissuaded people from preparing? Or are you saying that Paul has already lost the argument?

BTW, where are the hardcore Milne followers? I'm suprised that aaa@a didn't crosspost this one himself. God knows he crosspost so many Milne posts. He must have missed this one somehow. How about that good ole boy Ray (oops I guess that's another racial slur...hope the AARP doesn't get me)? Come on guys...you think the sun rises and sets in Minles private parts. Let's show a little togetherness for the cause here.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

Is anyone really shocked that Milne is lacking in certain social skills?

Is anyone really surprised that Gary North has his own agenda?

Judging a person's intellectual prowess by their manners is not particularly fruitful. A lot of smart people are not very nice. A lot of dumn people are not very nice.

This is where critical thinking comes in. Sort the wheat from the chaff. Just because Milne is right about 7-11s doesn't mean you want him marrying your sister. Grow up. The world is not designed to be filled with people who will make you feel comfortable. I would point out that lack of concern about other's opinions is the hallmark of those who are willing to confront an unpleasant truth.

That description includes me and most who post here.

Milne is rude. Yawn. If I worried about liking everyone I paid attention to I would live in an intellectual vacuum.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Gawd,

I typed "dumb" wrong. LOL. I am getting more humble every day.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Can anyone tell me who Paul Milne was BEFORE he found out about y2k?

How long has he been sucking a welfare check? Except for his "brick wall" inflexibility about y2k, does this person have any other qualifications that would possibly qualify him for real employment?

In case you are wondering why I am asking all these questions...

It seems to me that based on the number of posts and responses to his every rant - this guy has a good chance of running for public office. Ya either hate him or love him - no middle ground. He, himself, has no middle ground - so therefore he should fit the bill for all you folks that want someone in office that doesn't pussyfoot around (calm down will continue - I really did mean it as a pun!) and gives you a clear cut opinion on everything. Whadya say - Milne for Postal Inspector?

just my 2.3 cents worth justme

-- justme (finally@home.com), August 15, 1999.

"Just because Milne is right about 7-11s...."

Excuse me, did 01/01/2000 come and go and I missed it? Or maybe that was just you showing your true bias?

-- yawn (like@youcare.com), August 15, 1999.

Milne can now join Dechert as mirror-image identical bookends.

You know what they say about opposite extremes becoming just like each other?

Well guess what -- they were right.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), August 15, 1999.

Milne is more than rude. In actually by posting his brash anti- government rhetoric he has done more to dissuade people from preparing for Y2k than the claims he made against Harlan.

Try as he might, he cannot seperate his political views from Y2k, no matter his claims. It's all there for everyone to see. His knee-jerk Y2k commentary, the vitriolicy against government. In spite of his claims, or even his reasoning to the contrary, he is labelled and extremists and viewed so by many.

Had he stayed the course early on, using what background he had in commodities to bring home the salient points of what Y2k can do to supply chains, had he even spared us his anit-Clinton, anti-liberal, anti-government, anti-income tax, anti-Lincoln, pro sesessionist posts, people might have looked to his reasoning and seen the dangers Y2k presents.

But now, it's all mixed in together. It may not be put in seperate posts, but if you read them all, they get mixed together. Extremist ideology cannot compartmentize their viewpoints, anymore than character can be compartmentalized. Almost daily this man deals with some aspect of Y2k.

It's plainly evident that Milne wants system to be brought down. He wants new government. As he posted recently, "Working within the system will no longer suffice. Reformation is not possible."

And he adds, "I am at the point where I fully recognize that it MUST come to bloddshed (sic)."

These are the views of a secessionist. Few will prepare based on a views of a secessionist. In fact, his political views have dissuaded many from tkaing this problem seriously. Yes, he has his ilk, and he has influenced some, but his win-loss percentage is virtually nil.

-- Ponder (this@night.com), August 15, 1999.

Bob Brock -

Thanks for your reply and I had a heart warming ROTFLMGO re Pauls' private parts....

Seriously though, I do tend to agree with PM as to the gravity of Y2K although I will with much arrogance and pride claim the moral high ground .... You must have a holistic view as to man's death as to his life - and I doubt if Harlan really wants to be remembered as a polly or a doomer, rather than as an individual who had a personal opinion who will be sorely missed.

As to Paul, I would guess his rational is "The urgency of the matter = The ends justifies the means." If this includes rudeness and lack of tact, I can see his point. If you see a child about to put his finger in a flame do you say "Please move your hand" or yell "Don't do that stupid !!!" ? It all depends on your conviction.

If Harlan has actively discouraged Y2K preparation, I plead the first rule of Y2K - Do your own research, make your own decisions, and take personal responsibility for them. Yelling and screaming is counter productive, for every child saved from the candle another rebels due to harsh discip[line.......

-- Rob Somerville (merville@globalnet.co.uk), August 15, 1999.

You know, I real have to laugh at the bulk of you.

Most of you never even read my original post on the subject of Harlan's demise but rather formulated your opinions on the perverse diatribes of others.

I said That I did not like Harlan. And I said that I did not like him any better now that he was no longer here. I said that he actively harmed people by dissuading them from preparing. He did this by constantly minimizing the consequences of Y2K. Did he 'intentionally' go about trying to harm people? Of course not. But I never said that he did. His intentions were not under review. The sad lament is ALWAYS "But But, I never INTENDED to do any harm." But the harm was done just the same and the 'good intentions' were always hidden behind.

Virtually every comment made about me in this thread is head and heels more virulently repugnant than anything I said about Harlan. Yet, all the comments about me, in here , are just accepted as accurate by the pollyannas. No skin off my nose.

Did I call Harlan 'white trash', unsavory,? Did I use words like 'base hatred', ugliness, trailer trash, monstrous, dangerous, evil, etc etc ad infinitum? Nope. I said I did not like him becuase he caused people not to prepare.

So now, all you goober heads who have said far far far worse than I EVER said about Harlan vilify me while excusing yourselves.

Have at it. And while you are at it, why don't you start an "ALL MILNE, ALL THE TIME" thread.

Harlan's death in NO WAY excuses him from minimizing the consequences of Y2K. It in no way excuses him from dissuading people from preparing.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), August 15, 1999.

So Paul writes:

"Harlan's death in NO WAY excuses him from minimizing the consequences of Y2K. It in no way excuses him from dissuading people from preparing. "

Now think about this. The consequences of y2k, to date, have been minimal indeed. Not even Harlan could minimize consequences that haven't happened yet. So we're talking about different predictions. Harlan's predictions, based on ALL the facts, differed a lot from Milne's predictions, based on distortions of extreme material only.

Harlan's crime was getting people to THINK, which invariably caused them to disagree with Milne. Harlan never dissuaded ANYONE from preparing. He did dissuade them from making idiots of themselves.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 15, 1999.

Like I said, he's going to spend the next week being defensive about this. Coulda been:

"Of course it's a sad thing for his family that he's gone, to lose a husband and father. However, I said That I did not like Harlan. And I said that I did not like him any better now that he was no longer here...(yadda, yadda, yadda)"

That's what started this thread, the total lack of human respect, NOT Milne's feelings about what Harlan said or did. This is going to turn into another silly doomer/polly debate, and the sensitivity towards the dead man's family and friends is going to get lost in the shuffle yet again.

This needs to be clear.

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 15, 1999.

All one has to do to get a belly full of Milne's utter cruelty and lack of humanity is to read what he wrote originally in the RIP Harlan Smith thread on c.s.y2k.

Then do a deja search and read some of his other blatherings (if you can stand it. Over 7,000 posts from this nut.)

An extremely warped individual, IMHO. His kind have always existed, but they used to be out in the woods, cut off from the rest of society. With the Internet, I guess we have to put up with them in cyberspace. So it goes.

-- (drinking@thebar.now), August 15, 1999.

Poor Paulie Milne said:

So now, all you goober heads who have said far far far worse than I EVER said about Harlan vilify me while excusing yourselves.

_____________________________

Paul, you want us to believe that you honestly can't tell the difference between calling you "poor white trash" which you are, and your denegration of a dead man. You jump into a thread in CSY2k to get one last little gouge in on someone who can't defend himself and now you want to jump over here and whine about what everyone is saying about poor ole Paulie.

What you did was unjustifiable in my mind and the minds of anyone who has any amount of decency. Do you think that over here where the moderators may protect your sorry but is the best place to jump in and whine about how mistreated you are poor baby.

You owe Harlan's family and his friends an apology. Until you do that, you'll get absolutely no sympathy from me so long as you are alive. However, evern with what you have done, I still wouldn't make a post like you did should you die today. My silence would be out of respect for your family and those who would want to remember something good about you. I want to tell you what I think of you while you are still alive to enjoy it.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

In answer to the amazing moron brock:

Poor Paulie Milne said: So now, all you goober heads who have said far far far worse than I EVER said about Harlan vilify me while excusing yourselves.

_____________________________

Paul, you want us to believe that you honestly can't tell the difference between calling you "poor white trash" which you are, and your denegration of a dead man.

(I do not like Harlan. I do not like that he minimized the impact of Y2K causing people not to prepare. That is not denigrating him.)

You jump into a thread in CSY2k to get one last little gouge in on someone who can't defend himself and now you want to jump over here and whine about what everyone is saying about poor ole Paulie.

What you did was unjustifiable in my mind and the minds of anyone who has any amount of decency.

(I could not care less what YOU think is decent, O' supporter of Homosexuality and sodomy)

Do you think that over here where the moderators may protect your sorry but is the best place to jump in and whine about how mistreated you are poor baby.

You owe Harlan's family and his friends an apology.

(Not in the least. )

Until you do that, you'll get absolutely no sympathy from me so long as you are alive. However, evern with what you have done, I still wouldn't make a post like you did should you die today. My silence would be out of respect for your family and those who would want to remember something good about you. I want to tell you what I think of you while you are still alive to enjoy it.

( Pathetic brocko. You are a world class hypocrite. I think the gist of your argument is that you will say all manner of evil crap at someone when they are alive but cease, MERELY becuase they died. I don't make arbitrary rules like that. I don't like what Harlan did when he was alive and dying did not make it more palatable. It just conveniently stopped him from minimizing the effects of Y2K in these fora.

But, you go right ahead and carry on. It is absolutely hilarious to see you and your ilk saying a thousand fold worse about me than I ever said about Harlan. Typical of your flaming hypocricy. )

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), August 15, 1999.

He still doesn't get it...

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 15, 1999.

Like I said, he's going to spend the next week being defensive about this.

Bull. He made ONE POST out of the 54 or so that are here. Not much of a defense.

Coulda been:

"Of course it's a sad thing for his family that he's gone, to lose a husband and father. However, I said That I did not like Harlan. And I said that I did not like him any better now that he was no longer here...(yadda, yadda, yadda)"

Yeah, that sounds like Paul Milne. If he were channeling Oprah.

That's what started this thread, the total lack of human respect, NOT Milne's feelings about what Harlan said or did.

Respect has to be earned.

This is going to turn into another silly doomer/polly debate,

By the Pollys, no doubt.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 15, 1999.

its,

Go look over on c.s.y2k. The Harlan Smith R.I.P. thread has become the "Paul Milne Show." Even assholes and buttheads can show compassion towards a dead person's FAMILY before launching into the dead person's IDEAS.

And, why are YOU being so defensive?

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 15, 1999.

Well thank you Paul. You calling me a hypocrite while comming here crying and trying to find support is about the funniest thing that I've seen yet. Up until now, I've tried to be nice to you regardless of your stupidity because I figured you were just a stupid pig farmer and didn't really realize how vindictive your posts were being.

Well it's over Bubba. From now on, I'm going to treat you just like I did the guys in the cell block. It seems that the only difference between you and some of them is that they got caught. In fact some of them had more humanity and compassion than you do.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

Milne said " But I never said that he did. His intentions were not under review. The sad lament is ALWAYS "But But, I never INTENDED to do any harm." But the harm was done just the same and the 'good intentions' were always hidden behind."

Milne, you're as sphychopath as ever aren't you. It's obvious to everyone but yourself that your own intentions are askiew. You HAVE dissuaded MANY MANY people from preparing, from even thinking and worrying about Y2K, because of your EXTREMIST, PSYCHOPATH attitude.

"..but but my intentions..." you say.

Give it up Milne. Sell your PC and buy more preps.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 15, 1999.

"I think the gist of your argument is that you will say all manner of evil crap at someone when they are alive but cease, MERELY becuase they died."

Yeah, that would be called showing compassion. Can't have any of that.

"I don't make arbitrary rules like that."

And that one would be called joining the human race.

"I don't like what Harlan did when he was alive and dying did not make it more palatable. It just conveniently stopped him from minimizing the effects of Y2K in these fora. "

And has one of us asked you to change your opinion of Harlan? NO! All we asked you to do was show some respect for his family and those of us that considered Harlan a friend. You didn't have to say a thing, not one blasted word. If you didn't like him, FINE! That's your right, but you could of at least had the decency to keep your mouth shut. But heck no, the great and mighty Paul Milne can't let a day go by without stroking his own ego.

BTW, I notice you ignore the FACT that some of us did start prepping because of Harlan. Once again Paul, don't let FACTS get in the way of your little world view. You are a piece of work Paul, a true piece of work. I used to at least give your postings a glance, now I shall realize that they are the rantings of an uncaring, unfeeling meglomaniac.

Good riddance Paul.

And btw, when you do pass away, at least *I* will have the decency to keep my opinions of you to myself out of respect to those who care for you.

-- Go To That (Deep@darkplace.paul.com), August 15, 1999.

I have tiptoed around this thread for two days and I just can't stand it any longer. I am fed up to here with politically correct socialist commie wanna be ass kissing two faced hypocritical sonsofbitches running this country and wanting me to act just like them. If any of you gutless wonders had a hair on your ass you would walk up to old Paulks cabin and invite him out into the yard for a good ass whipping being as your poor sensibilities are so offended by his drastic statement that he didn't like the guy dead or alive. I've met a lot of people I don't like in my brief lifetime, and those who have passed on I'm quite sure largely reside in Hell now. The one thing most of them had in common was they reminded me of the snivelling whining elitist pukes who want to turn this into a nation of slaves. Tax, the smokers to death, wear a saftey belt or pay a fine, no more guns, can't raise chickens on your own land, How many more steps to Stalin? Milne should run for President, he's got my vote.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), August 15, 1999.

Not everyone who believes that simple human decency is called for when the member of someone else's family dies, even if we vehemently disagree with that person's words or actions, is a "politically correct socialist commie wanna be ass kissing two faced hypocritical sonsofbitch."

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 15, 1999.

Dot Dot, I wouldn't give too much credence to posters who talk about how bad they are and post under psudonyms. If he/she doesn't have the gumption to have a real name, whooping someone over a dispute is way beyond their capabilities.

It's probably Paul in drag....

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

The distinction between Milne and his critics boils down to Window Dressing.

Milne doesn't need it, his critics make a religion of it.

-- Tom Beckner (xouttbeckner@erols.com), August 15, 1999.

And if Milne made a hard right turn, Beckner would break his nose. What were you really trying to say Tom?

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

Milne, once again you miss the point. In my posts I compared what you said one place with what you said in another. Pretty simple. It's less what I say and more what you say. It's your words vs. your words.

-- Ponder (this@night.com), August 15, 1999.

DITTO NIKOLI!!

Yes Paul, I would help keep your gun loaded, if you helped me, just not against helpless mothers.

For all of you who don't like Milne, so Fu##in what. A patriot won't need you around anyhow. Bottom line.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), August 15, 1999.

What he is trying to say brock is that I call a spade a spade and I do not pull punches. I don't sugar-coat and I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

I am a straght shooter and you know EXACTLY where I stand no ifs ands or buts.

I don't hedge and I don't hem and haw.

This is SO out of place in this world that most people do not know how to react. They are so used to political correctness they would not understand a DIRECT comment if it bit them in the ass.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), August 15, 1999.

See, Paul took a trun and broke Beckner's nose so badly that now Paul has to do his talking for him. What's the matter, Tom (good enough for government work) Beckner too stupid to say what you want him to say Paulie?

GFYS....

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

To Wright:

You are correct. We are living under a grotesque tyranny. The reason that it is so grotesque is that the majority of the population is so ignorant that they actually encourage it.

I have said that we are beyond reformation. I stand by that.

Our God given rights are being systematically violated by the government of the united States. If the majority of the population does not care that this is so then I am not in the least concerned how they would fare in a showdown. They are no more Americans than the trees that merely 'happen' to spring up across the landscape.

You either support the tyranny or you oppose it. Black and white.

Pick your side.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), August 15, 1999.

Porkchop Paulie said: ---------------------

You either support the tyranny or you oppose it. Black and white.

---------------------

Well, I for one oppose it, so I guess (once again) we will be on opposite sides. When are YOU going to quit talking about it, get up off your porkchop butt, and do something besides quit talking about it Paulie?

Talks cheap.... and

GFYS

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 15, 1999.

Sigh...

This thread did not begin as a debate about tyranny. It began as a discussion of compassion, or the lack thereof. One can be opposed to tyranny and still show compassion at the same time. There are certainly plenty of opportunities in this whole damn Y2K mess to rail against tyranny. When the rare opportunity arises to show some compassion, we ought to take it. This is, afterall, about life, and survival.

Is life such a bad thing? Or have we really turned into a bunch of "Doom Zombies"?

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 16, 1999.

I'm with Nikoli on this one - very well said.

And I believe R said that you cannot expect to go through a sugar- coated life without mixing it up with assholes. Or words to that effect :)

I'm totally behind Paul on this one - personally I wouldn't have waded in on the csy2k thread, but that's just me. The way I see it, anyone, such as Poole and Hewitt that dissuade people from preparing, who minimise y2k as a hoax or scam, are scumbags of the highest order.

From what I've read about Harlan he certainly wasn't in that league. Well meaning, but as Paul Milne pointed out the end result is the same.

Poole is a scumbag of the highest order - he nows what he's doing. same goes for Hewitt, he knows what he's doing. Both have been repeatedly taken to rask over there anti-Christian actions, but their egocentric personas will not listen. Scumbags.

Remember - we have almost run out of time, less than 60 or so working days left, Paul is if anything holding back TOO much in view of the calamity fast approaching.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 16, 1999.

Well gosh Andy. That just means that you are a bigger asshole than Paul Milne is. However, that doesn't suprise me in the least. The only consolation to this whole thing is that, in just a few more months, we can all see that Paul's 3 billion dead-the end of western civilization was so much crap.

Mabey then you will be a little more selective about whom you worship. In the meantime, why don't you and Paule go whoop up on some homosexuals or whatever it is that you big boys do when you aren't mean mouthing dead people.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 16, 1999.

I am saddened by the passing of Harlan Smith, but the sense of loss is for myself and not him.

It has to do with my belief in Almighty God and Jesus Christ, the reason I am not concerned for Harlan.

I didn't know Harlan, read about twenty or thirty of his posts to c.s.y2k, responded to each other's a couple times, corresponded a few times via email re a VA Administration item he was following up on.

Since I only know a small amount, it is easy for me to learn new things, and I learned significant things reading his posts and asking questions which he answered.

But he could be wrong, vindictive and rude just as easily as he could be informative and instructive and helpful. Not to me, but to others, like Tim May.

I responded once to him that Paul said he was an asshole and I thought he might be right. This was back before the Poole hoax, something on embedded systems.

There was a post on c.s.y2k by z . It was an anecdotal reference to a visit he made (z) to a VA hospital in Hampton and described a hallway scene with a woman addressing a group of people. Turns out she is beginning the y2k assessment for this facility. Questioning the woman, z writes that she is clueless and there is no way this is a good thing to be starting this late, around June this year I believe this happened.

I posted something, but was wondering about the credibility of z because of his laid back, casual writing while claiming to be a micro biologist.

Paul responds that he knows z and vouches for him. I acknowledge Pauls post.

I get an email from Harlan wanting permission to use my post and my source z for an article at Westergard. The threads were screwed up and he thought this stuff was mine. During the course of emailing back and forth to get it right, he just kept me posted on what was happening with his article.

It is ironic that earlier this evening I was cleaning out emails and found this one I had not seen. I will paste it up, the readers above that had questions about Harlan can follow the link to Westergard, read his article and see his bio.

I click up this site, see he died and that Brock (who doesn't post much to TB2000 he said on c.s.y2k) is plying his trade.

I goto Pauls post, see Paul affirming the same thing he told Harlan when he was alive, then click back here to see the clueless attacks on Paul filling up the page.

I can imagine Harlan just shaking his head at all of us. I can gaurentee you he would tell us we have more important concerns than fighting with each other.

Anyway, here is the email he forwarded to me, he is addressing another clueless denialist that responded to his VA hospital article, and it has the link to the article, since a couple people were asking about him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: VHA in Dire Straits Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:55:07 -0400 From: "Harlan Smith" To: "'Doc' Don Taylor" CC: "* John Yellig"

Doc,

Thank you for taking to time to read at least the first part of my article http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/Washington/Misc/smith9926.htm

I'm glad you were surprised. I hope some others are sufficiently surprised to rectify many of the problems I perceive.

I request your permission to have John Yellig post this message on his web site, including your comments and my response to those comments.

But, I just don't find _any of your comments valid except for the unfortunate apostrophe.

Furthermore, you have totally ignored the substance of my article that consists of authoritative material taken verbatim from testimony at Congressional hearings and the VHA pages on the Department of Veterans Affairs web pages.

>-----Original Message----- >From: 'Doc' Don Taylor [mailto:docdon@pobox.com] >Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 11:32 >To: hwsmith@cris.com >Subject: VHA in Dire Straits > >Harlan, > > For a couple of people that pretty much agree on things Y2k, I was >surprised by your article at Westergaard today >. > > First of all, the "Department of Veterans Affairs", replaced the >"Veteran's Administration", as expressed on the home page and "Z's" email, >10 years ago. And the *Veterans* Health Administration, not the *Veteran's* >as stated in your article.

Yep. A knit but I have an errant apostrophe in there. I apologize for one errant apostrophe.

I do not apologize for "Veteran's Administration" which appeared as part of the quote. I believe that I should be permitted to use quotes verbatim, even with spelling and other errors, of which there are 2 or 3. Nowhere did I write "Veteran's Administration", although that error appeared in the quotation.

> Secondly, the individual report you start with is about one facility - the >VA Medical Center in Hampton, Virginia. Not only is this my back yard, but >I am also a retired member of the Air Force.

So, perhaps you have the means to accurately find out what is going on at Hampton. I do not. I think it would be beneficial to get accurate information on the remediation status down at the site level. You and I know that the self-reporting process, up through layers of management, automatically colors the reports rosy.

I really doubt that you can get accurate information, unless you get a copy of the filled out checklist that Hampton is required to certify and deliver by August 1st. (http://www.va.gov/year2000/docs/VISN%20Year%202000%20Activities%20Che cklist .doc}

The contents of that filled-in table would certainly tend to clarify the situation at Hampton and likely give some visibility regarding the global situation for the entirety of VHA. That would be good solid information. Anything other than that would probably not be very beneficial.

> My best and oldest friend is >also heavily dependent on a VA Medical Center in PA.

Thousands of people are. That's why I wrote the article. How is this relevant to your critique of my article? Most of my article is derived from material pulled from testimony at congressional hearings and from the VA web site.

> I don't understand why >you chose to review all of VHA rather than determine the validity of the >specific allegation,

First, because, if there is a problem at Hampton, the problem is likely global and I think the material found on the VA web site is self incriminating and indicative of a global problem. I have much more interest in the global situation at 173 hospitals than just one hospital which possibly may have gone awry. The molecular biologist's comment on the Hampton facility was beneficial in that it stimulated me to look at the global situation. It just raised a flag and caused me to look.

Secondly because the global information and direction of the VHA effort is available on the "Department of Veterans Affairs" web site. There is no such information conveniently available on the exact situation at Hampton. If there is a problem there, it will have most likely been caused by poor management at higher levels.

>which I thought was most relevant and contained >several flaws making it suspect.

There were no discernible flaws except the spelling errors. Your reasons for disbelieving the report lack substance, are vague and in some cases misinterpretations of what was said. There was no claim of a female facilities manager as you assert. The quotation seemed to indicate that the administrative officer was functioning as a Y2K coordinator and certainly not a facilities manager. It is not unreasonable to assume that she would be responsible for propagating a requirement for Y2K facilities testing to the facilities manager, in fact it would be appropriate.

> Someone sent me a copy of the original allegation from yesterday. I spoke >with the Associate Director of the Center and one of the "detail" men as he >refers to it.

... and ... who did he identify as the site Y2K coordinator?

>While the benefit of my contact was synergistic - they were >looking to join the regional groups I am associated with

I think that they could probably use your knowledgeable help.

> - my conclusion so >far is that your "Z" is at best confused.

Maybe he is. I did not claim to validate or invalidate the claim, just investigated to see if it was sufficiently consistent with the overall remediation progress at "Veterans Health Administration" to have some credibility. His claims just stimulated me to look up some facts on the situation. The congressional testimony and VA web site were convenient, comprehensive and authoritative.

The facts I discovered _did lend credibility to the molecular biologist's assertions but of course, did not validate them. Only detailed information would validate or invalidate his story and the assertions contained in that story.

> Though my information so far is limited, I've found no shortage of >resources, no newness of project, people working at the grunt level (as >usual) and no lack of progress to the extent the writer spoke of (there is >no woman in charge of facilities either).

There was no claim made with regard to a "woman in charge of facilities". On the other hand, there must be a Y2K coordinator on the Hampton site who will prepare the response to the checklist for signatures of the facility director and the director of the parent VISN (Veterans Integrated Service Network). Perhaps the Administrative Officer referred to is the Y2K coordinator for the Hampton site or was on the staff of the Y2K coordinator.

So what is your evidence of progress? Did you discover that they could give satisfactory answers to most of the items on the 10-page check list? If so, which items were favorable and which were unfavorable, indicating deficiency of effort.

> The writer may have heard >something and surmised it was people in the responsible position and they >weren't really.

He reported a very brief conversation and did not claim it to be other than that. He did not indicate what the role of the Administrative Officer was, other than she was charged with being involved in all or some part of the site remediation. If you are local, why don't you follow up with him. I haven't been able to reach him so far.

>Why would an administrative officer in a lab be responsible? >for facilities?

Who's the Y2K coordinator and who is on his team?

It would be good to have this posted along with my article on Westergaard. Do we have your permission to do that?

Harlan

>Doc > > >~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >| Continuum Foundation - USA | >| Focus on the real issues | >| http://members.visi.net/~certus/yca | >|docdon@pobox.com eFax=> 603.452.8749 +1.757.877.4992| > >

-- Tom Beckner (xouttbeckner@erols.com), August 16, 1999.

Bob, please re-read what I said - that it's not my style to speak ill of the dead, I wouldn't have said anything on the csy2k thread, ... and that Harlan was well meaning...

From Flint's original announcement yesterday...

"Very sorry to hear this sad news Flint, my condolences to his family.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 14, 1999."

Apology please Bob.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 16, 1999.

Andy, if you aren't trying to justify Paul's posts to CSY2k where he made a total ass out of himself by failing to control his cyber tounge, I'll apologize. However, if your intent is to make Paul out to be somehow a hero for being an asshole, don't hold your breath. In my opinion, Paul Milne has done more to cause people to not prepare for Y2k than all of the Polly's combined.

Did I misread your post in this thread where you said "I'm totally behind Paul on this one..." You can't have it both ways. You are either totally behind him or you aren't.

Tom (Good enough for government work) Beckner. I don't need your permission to post anywhere. I am a little curious though. Is posting private e-mail somehow more acceptable when the other party is dead or is this just another of those "Good enough for government work" things that you do? I've got a few of Paul's that I'd love to post. Mabey you can get him to post them for me so that everyone can see how his sick little mind works.

I do commend you guys and Paul for trying to keep moving the thread away from what Paul did though. It still doesn't make what Paulie did socially acceptable, but hey...you gotta do what you gotta do.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 16, 1999.

It is both sad and revealing that this thread has received 78 posts today, while the thread that Flint started earlier in the day, "Sad to lose Harlan Smith" received only 8 responses. This thread is not really about Harlan Smith, and it certainly isn't about Y2K. It could have easily been titled, "Is Paul Milne a monster? Cast your votes here". The truth is, Y2K doesn't care about Paul Milne. And, contrary to what has been written here today about "hero worship", Paul Milne is an infrequent contributor to this forum, as is Bob Brock. Why is it that this very intense and personal war between regulars from csy2k is being carried out on the TB2000 forum?

-- Please (GoHome@csytk.com), August 16, 1999.

Please,

You are absolutely right. This thread isn't about Harlan. It's about Paul Milne and in fact, it says so right in there in the title. As far as "hero worship" goes, perhaps you should look and see how much of Paul's piss poor logic gets crossposted by his followers (aaa@a and Ray)from CSY2k to this forum.

Because Paul is so well represented here, it's only fair that those who follow him get a chance to see up close and personally what type of person they have decided to throw in with.

Also, you are absolutely right. Y2k doesn't respect Paul Milne as will be seen in a very few months even by those who can't see how many times he has been wrong in the last little while.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 16, 1999.

Paul Milne is just a raving lunatict dumbass sitting out in the woods with an Internet account. If Kazinski (Unabomber) had it back then, he probably ould have been line Milne, ranting, raving, and railing against the world. Maybey if Kazinski had the release, he wouldnt have killed so many people, who knows?

I think Milne just has to have his release. Get over it. Let him have his fun in cyberspace, where its all just type on a computer screen, and its just a click away from oblivion. If you take this lunatict seriously at all, you will have a hard time with the rest of the internet! lol

As far as I can tell from here and his Usenet postings, and the crap he has put in here, he's a psychotic mainiac. You make your own decisions. YMMV

-- Tired of Usenet Trollers Like Milne (Hate.Dumbasses@always.net), August 16, 1999.

Tired,

Fair enough. I'll move back to CSY2k where the grass is greener and the speech stays the way that you typed it. Those who think that Paul Milne is anymore than a failed commodities broker turned pig farmer, tax burden, and part time prophet of doom wannabe gets what they deserve.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 16, 1999.

Unfortunately for us all Bob he's DEAD ON RIGHT ABOUT Y2K AND ITS AFTERMATH.

Get over it man. Deal with it. It won't be pretty.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 16, 1999.

Andy, I know that you are either joking or you really don't know what he has predicted. Either that, or you are going to feel really silly in just a few months.

I'm not saying that Y2k will be a non event. I'm not even saying that it will be pretty. I am saying that there is absolutely no evdence tht the Milne/Info scenerio has any basis whatsoever in reality.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 16, 1999.

No Bob I'm not joking, I wish I were, I know Milne's stance and he is RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 16, 1999.

Time (and not much longer now will tell). However, Paul hasn't been right so far about anything that he predicted and all I'm seeing is a re-run of last years predictions.

If he were actually right, that would be most suprising and most probably fatal for the Milne clan. He isn't a survivor. While I personally dread Y2k, I look forward to the rollover since then he will have lost his soapbox and will finally be shown for the absolute fool that he actually is in a way that even those who have been blinded so far will have no choice except to come to grips with the fact that they have decided to follow a fool.

That intelligent people can overlook so many failied predictions to believe in something that has such a small amount of evidence in reality never ceases to amaze me. That those same people would come running to the aid and adoration of a man who can't keep his mouth shut long enough for one of his detractors to be buried is just plain pitiful.

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), August 16, 1999.

"Well it's over Bubba. From now on, I'm going to treat you just like I did the guys in the cell block."

Bob Brock August 15, 1999

-- Tom Beckner (xouttbeckner@erols.com), August 16, 1999.

I wasn't defending milne,or his ways,I was taking exception to the term "trailer trash",or "poor white trash".Said terms are as despicable as "faggit" "nigger" or "gook",they summon up stereotypes that never bring people closer to understanding,they just give more ammo to justify hate.During the Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan debacle,dateline actualy refered to Tonya Harding as "trailer trash".Now I ask you to consider,what would have happened if Tonya Harding had been black.Can you imaginewhat would have happened if dateline refered to a black woman as "ghetto trash"?

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 16, 1999.

"poor white trash",by the way could include the likes of Abraham Lincoln.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 16, 1999.

Just one more time.

Found this small item on c.s.y2k. This is what it comes down to. (I don't know how to link to it, and couldn't be bothered figuring it out.) The thread is titled "mr. milne."

"paul, i have a problem with the way you conducted yourself in the harlan smith thread.

you were a very strong presense when my husband died you gave condolences and offered help to me when needed.

bill was very (middle of the road) as far as y2k goes and you flamed him when you saw fit and he took it in stride but after he died you made valiant efforts to comfort me.

point is you had something nice to say about someone you did not agree with.

is mr.harlen smith different ?

laura"

-- (dot@dot.dot), August 16, 1999.

KILL ALL THE POLLIES!!!!

Very impressive gang. Sad day for this forum.

Deedah - I love Jimmy Buffet..........thanks!

Andy, Milne, ect..........one word - 'pitiful'

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 16, 1999.

Can't we all find it in our hearts to forgive a misunderstanding? Can't we all just get along? Can't we stop the name calling and the vicious attacks on each other? Mr. Harlan is no longer with us, let him rest in peace. Mr. Harlan is far better off today than he was a week ago, we are all soon to follow.

-- let's get along (let'sgetalong@let'sgetalongg.com), August 16, 1999.

People express hatred towards Paul because they fear deep down that he might be right about Y2K. If he were saying that the Earth would be turn into a centillion daisies in 5 months, he would be laughed at some, but mostly ignored and not hated. Instead, he says that the self-destruct of the cores of the mechanisms that keep us alive will cause many deaths and much mayhem, and those who did not take precautions against this in time are at much greater risk of death from these events than those who do. Surely most posters on this forum agree with that. True, he is often a bit coarse, but I hear just as bad from most schoolchildren when they think no adult is listening (and increasingly, regardless). Read "Lord of The Flies" sometime. If you think he is direct and crude, try eavesdropping on street people, manual laborers, or jail inmates sometime. The savage is already at the surface in millions of Americans, and these people will lose all external restraints on their behavior very soon... Frankly, I am glad that Paul Milne is out there writing.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), August 16, 1999.

>>>"I have tiptoed around this thread for two days and I just can't stand it any longer. I am fed up to here with politically correct socialist commie wanna be ass kissing two faced hypocritical sonsofbitches running this country and wanting me to act just like them. If any of you gutless wonders had a hair on your ass you would walk up to old Paulks cabin and invite him out into the yard for a good ass whipping being as your poor sensibilities are so offended by his drastic statement that he didn't like the guy dead or alive. I've met a lot of people I don't like in my brief lifetime, and those who have passed on I'm quite sure largely reside in Hell now. The one thing most of them had in common was they reminded me of the snivelling whining elitist pukes who want to turn this into a nation of slaves. Tax, the smokers to death, wear a saftey belt or pay a fine, no more guns, can't raise chickens on your own land, How many more steps to Stalin? Milne should run for President, he's got my vote. "<<<

Amen, amen and AMEN!!!

These vengeful elitist hatemongers would just as soon toss the "Right- Wing/Doomer nutcases" into a boxcar and haul it off to a trench set before machine guns.

And the way this nation's going, that's exactly where we're going.

No free speech. No free thought. No free opinion if it don't agree with the State.

Never have I seen such vitriolic hatred for someone who speaks his mind.

I fear Paul is right, America is dead and finished.

All that's left now is the fighting.

Count me in on the side of right. Regardless of how many hate our guts.

The time for talk is over.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), August 16, 1999.

INVAR - you are so dense you amaze me. How the dickens do you keep from sinking through the floor?

Look, we ain't the Federal Government here. It is just us chickens. And when we don't like what you say, there just isn't any point to trying to make it sound like the FEDS have just come down on you. Get me?

Yes, there are a fair number of people out in the world who would like to see Milne shut up. Reason - he is a damned fool. I just wonder how many people have run into Milne on their first Internet search on Y2K and said - don't wanna associate with that! And never returned to the subject afterwards.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), August 17, 1999.