I have really been amazed at the responses of the "disrupters" today. Even on a story that is factual and can't be refuted, they feel they must post snide remarks.

Earlier today I posted a thread on the tornado in Salt Lake City. I clearly marked the thread OT (off topic.) For as long as I have been on the forum (over a year,) we have discussed breaking news. If you want to read the thread, here is a link.

I want to paste a couple of the responses here:

No doubt the doomer brigade will find some way to tie this to Y2K. The "Whether Channel", heh, I like that.

-- Art Bell (could@thisleadtotheNW.O), August 11, 1999.

Salt Lake City - tornado - Y2k...coincidence??

-- (Try@reality.com), August 11, 1999.

Fortunately, I don't give a "rip" about their opinion. I do, however, feel sorry for the new people who come here and don't know what is going on. For all of you who keep crying out for no "deletion" from the moderators, we have you to thank for this kind of trash. I hope you're pleased with the direction the forum has taken. I am saddened by it.

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 12, 1999

Answers

Gayla: Ignore them, they don't having anything else better to do and since we GIs have fantastic, quick, and intellectual brains, we already have deleted them from this forum. It's mind over matter, "I don't mind and they don't matter."

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 12, 1999.

Gayla,

I know how you feel. I remember the first time I felt I needed to post here I was welcomed with compassion and warmth. It was so long ago I can't really remember but did we have trolls then?

I, like you, don't give a "rip" about their opinion either. And, if we push the issue a little, I think we can get the holder of the delete key to rule with a firmer hand.

Posts that are off topic are not the same as posts that provide no valuable insight or information. Breaking news has always, ALWAYS, been posted here without hesitation.

Gayla, you've provided so much positive energy and insight and help to this forum for so long and I was shocked at the responses on that thread. I've posted here for well over a year and I know you were here before me. If the day comes that you feel you can no longer post here I'm sure I wont be too far behind you. I owe you a huge debt of gratitude for all the help you've given me and so many others.

In the end, Gayla, I'd say let them eat cake. It may well be that it is their last meal.

And Mr. Sysop, do your thing buddy.

Mike

==========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

Gayla,

What are you doing up at this hour, missy?

.

As to your qwery,

Be like a duck, let it slip off your back like raindrops.

PS, no thanks are needed. Another case of shitheads spoiling it for everyone else. Keep a stiff upper lip, eh what?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Gayla:

I looked at the thread, and I DID ay something at the time I looked, at about 1830. I left it at that time, as things were OK, sort of, with nobody too far out. I'll look again.

Chuck

btw, Gayla, drop me an e, please? CR

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 12, 1999.

G, You ARE correct and the trash HAS been taken out (mostly).

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 12, 1999.

I wonder how many others feel the same way, Gayla? It's hard to find the words or motivation to counter the trend of intentionally provocative "trash talk." I'm not smart enough to know why it's happening or how to change it. I don't believe it's my imagination that civility and forceful, responsible debate is now the exception, rather than the rule. Is it the internet?

Today, any idiot or bully can 'participate' by buying a computer. The avenues weren't available years ago. They could stand on a corner and scream, but people could walk away. Editors found no value in publishing child-like outbursts by anonymous, simple-minded people.

Today, everyone is 'published' on the internet.

This open forum draws its natural share of people who are unable to successfully function in the non-vitual society. Some are intentional provocateurs. Constantly baiting people with their choice of language. In the real world, they are probably called "troublemakers" at their work. Hot-headed, whining troublemakers don't become executives because they lack the people skills to get the position in the first place...

I suspect most of the troublemakers are overweight, homely, bald, socially-inept, frustrated, middle-aged white men. Unlike the rest of us who are slim, attractive, charming, sophisticated and clever. We can take solace in that, can't we Gayla?

-- PNG (Peter Gauthier) (png@gol.com), August 12, 1999.

YOU RAT BASTARD!

Where do you get off with that "bald" comment???

Fuzzy-ass!

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

bardou, good shot! and incidentally, Welcome Back!

Mike , that wasn't fruitcake ,was it? Gayla's not going to waste her fruitcake on them!

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), August 12, 1999.

Response to The "Disrupters"

PNG: Anyone particular in mind Decker?

-- Spidey (in@jam.commie), August 12, 1999.

" I suspect most of the troublemakers are overweight, homely, bald, socially-inept, frustrated, middle-aged white men. "

Uh-oh, looks like you quit preachin' and went to meddlin'. I'm with you Deedah, (you think he can actually see me through this thing?)

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), August 12, 1999.

I like that 'spikey hair thing' you've got goin' Unc...

Spidey-- I'll let you fill in the names of the ones you consider provocateurs. I use the "emergency test." When I 'read' the words of people, I get a clear idea of who's judgement on this forum I'd trust during a real emergency.

I admit that I'm no longer a very good follower. For most of my life, there were always people smarter than me - who's judgement and leadership I trusted. I've reached the age now where someone has to be pretty impressive for me to trust their leadership, judgement and decision-making ability over my own. Particularly in a 'real' emergency. It sounds egotistical, but so be it.

The provocateurs aren't leaders. They just thinkthey're clever.

-- PNG (Peter Gauthier) (png@gol.com), August 12, 1999.

Gayla, I agree, it is sad how this forum has lost much of its civility compared than last year. We had some trolls disruptions and some flamings then, but in the 4 months I was away since April I've noticed a large increase in traffic and newcomers. This forum is just like any other on the net, the larger it is, the more flaming and discord there is.

Someone in another thread earlier this week mentioned the lab experiment psychologists did with mice; one mouse is lonely, 2 mice get along with an occasional tiff, 4 mice bicker more often, 8 mice bite at each other, and violence and discord increases exponentialy as you add mice. This study was to help demonstrate what happens in areas with over-crowded living conditions. On a forum like this, as more and more people with different views, values and morals enter, the more the "violence" and chaos, each fighting for their own "piece of real-estate" and dominance in opinion, much like mice do.

There's really nothing you can do other than ignore the offenders. I'm glad we now have moderators to remove troll posts that used to disrupt the forum's mechanic with HTML etc,. However, I'm a bit worried that now it has lost its true freedom of speech feel we used to have. There's several threads, some old (not in archive) and some new, that I was participating in that seems to just have disapeared.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 12, 1999.

I like one of our regulars' approach which is to fill a disrupter's thread with jokes, or tell a joke right after a disrupter posts.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), August 12, 1999.

Thanks to ALL of you (even the bald ones!) :-) for your responses and kind words. Those of us who have been here for awhile have slowly gotten more accustomed to the "disrupters." Think about the new people, though! If I had just come to this forum for the first time looking for information, I wouldn't want to ask a question. Why deliberately set yourself up for ridicule? I like what Chuck said on another thread about what's "left to do" on the forum in the short time that remains:

"keeping the neighborhood as clean and well lit as possible for the new renters is the important thing, from my perspective"

I love the camaraderie of this place, but it's also important to me to help the newbies find answers. Thanks, Chuck, for the job you're doing.

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 12, 1999.

Gayla,

Just a quick check in... I have to say as a vacationing Sysop, Chucks job is NOT easy, nor is it for anyone who holds the delete key. The volume of traffic here makes it quite difficult to read every post (good luck), plus since everybody is a volunteer, and has a life beyond the forum (sometimes), keeping an eye on the place can not be done 24/7, which is why there are Moderators and Regulars who can flash the Sysops an e pointing to a problem thread which can then be handled.... soon.

Without everyones support in shifting the energy here and being part of the alert team we all have little hope of changing the tone here. (At lest the Prep Forum works).

Refraining from engaging the trolls seems to be practically impossible for some. (It would help, but truly, I dont think theyll go away by choice). Many of these consistent and constantly handle-morphing disruptors will simply continue because taunting has become a game to them. Sorta like sitting on other forums and laughing from afar. (If only theyd be satisfied with that, but, theyre not).

If the bulk of regular posters, do their part in helping out and trying to engage in salient discourse, then it just helps everyone.

Okay, back to preps.

;-D

Diane

(BTW, Youre doing a great job Chuck!)

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Diane,

One might ask the question, why is Rick Cowels forum void of the problems encountered here??

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 12, 1999.

Look at it this way. While the trolls are trying to disrupt us over here, they're not being rude to innocent sales clerks or making life hard for wait staff or filing spurious grievances at work or any of the other malicious things they used to do.

-- Troll- (watching@the.bridge), August 12, 1999.

Ray,

Because Rick's had a policy of heavy "not on-topic" deleting from the get-go, but even that didn't eliminate problems and they finally caused him to "go private."

The TBY2K forum develped a year-and-a-half history of being an "anything goes" cyber-spot which was mostly on-Y2K topic, until the "dedicated" trolls started showing up last November. Ed didn't have the time to heavily Moderate, so the forum continued to morph.

So... where does it go from here? Time will tell.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Whaddaya mean, Bald?

Here's a candid shot of Decker, and this one's "Deano" in his yacht

This one caught "CPR" and "Doc Paulie" in an unguarded moment

-- (photos@identity.bureau), August 12, 1999.

Response to The "Disrupters"

That's not baldness, his head is simply molting as his brain expands beyond its cranial vault.

-- Spidey (in@jam.commie), August 12, 1999.

Gayla, I like your posts--the news, the trivia and conversation. OT means exactly what it says, and maybe they don't know that. I didn't read that post, but just ignore the riff raff. I especially like the news items that I wouldn't otherwise know about.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), August 12, 1999.

I'm a disrupter?? Really?? I think my feelings are hurt........nah.....

Oh, and I don't own a yacht. I nice 23 footer, but certainly not a yacht.

Thanks for thinking of me though!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 12, 1999.

Thanks, Gilda! :-)

I've seen the same thing happening today on lots of other posts. Sad!

OK, for whoever posted the picture of Captain Hook above, here is a joke for you. :-)

An able-bodied seaman meets a pirate in a bar, and they take turns recounting their adventures at sea.

Noting the pirate's peg-leg, hook, and eye patch the seaman asks, "So, how did you end up with the peg-leg?"

The pirate replies, "We was caught in a monster storm off the cape and a giant wave swept me overboard. Just as they were pullin' me out, a school of sharks appeared and one of 'em bit me leg off."

"Blimey!" said the seaman. "What about the hook?"

"Ahhhh...," mused the pirate, "we were boardin' a trader ship, pistols blastin' and swords swingin' this way and that. In the fracas me hand got chopped off."

"Zounds!" remarked the seaman. "And how came ye by the eye patch?"

"A seagull droppin' fell into me eye," answered the pirate.

"You lost your eye to a seagull dropping?" the sailor asked incredulously.

"Well," said the pirate, "it was me first day with the hook."

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 12, 1999.

Gayla,
This is the opinion forum. This is where Fundy Doomers get to spout scripture, and airhead pollies get to say, "I know everything will be Y2K OK, because my utility company CEO said it will." Somepeople express there opinion in solemn serious terms, and some people do it with comedy (Well, some people think it's funny, but then comedy, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder). If this were happening in the Prep forum, I'd agree with you. Here, though, I think such complaints, to be honest, are a little whiney. Who decides what's disruptive. Man, those long winded Fundy posts give me the blues, big time. I'm looking for facts, not someones religious views. Give ME the delete key, and all religious references, whether they came from the Bible, the Koran, or Aleister Crowley would be history. I'm sure there's lot's of people who would take high umbrage with that.
You see, that's why, in a free and open forum, the delete key is best used verrrrry sparingly.
I know that someone's going to get all puffed up and say (In their deepest, most serious, most intimidating voice), "How DARE you compare childish insults with someone's heart-felt religious convictions????!!!! THAT is not the same thing, AT ALL!". Yes it is. Both are ways of telling your opinion.

-- Bokonon (bokonon@my-deja.com), August 12, 1999.

Thanks Diane, your efforts are much appreciated!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@ttoacc.com), August 12, 1999.

Whaddaya mean bald? Who said I was bald? Actually, I do have "whisps of orange hair, contrasting nicely with a rather large, red rubber nose".

God, I miss the Circus.

Ole Lon the Clown

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), August 12, 1999.

Bokonon, I don't have a problem with expressed "opinions." You stated yours very nicely. It's the little personal "jabs" that serve no purpose that I have a problem with. An example that I saw today: someone made a post concerned about the fact that their job might end. The very first response was "So what?" Those are the type of postings I'm talking about. When new people see that type of response, do you think it makes them want to just "jump in" and post? I don't mind OT news threads, I appreciate them; and I love the humor. It just saddens me when people enjoy taunting and harassing others.

Lon, I miss the circus, too! :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 12, 1999.

Gayla,

I know what you mean about the uncalled-for flames. But, I started a thread about two weeks ago ("Let's move on...") which ran a week, went to three thread continuations and had absolutely NO trolling. I don't know what it was, maybe that I asked (nicely) right up front, that we have no name calling. Or maybe it was the subject matter, or the time of week. But, I think since I have never really responded to obvious trolling, whether aimed at me or not, maybe they just know I won't play the game.

Either that or they know that I am an intellectual 90 pound weakling, and just nobody has the heart to pick on me. Either way is fine with me, and these too, shall pass.

Got Spam-on-a-stick?

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), August 12, 1999.

HALP!!! GAYLA!!

I spoke too soon. I just started a new thread, "Stopped by my insurance agent today...", and I'm getting my butt kicked!

Seems some only want to argue about details, and ignore that it was just an observation on my part. Maybe we're all getting a little touchy.

Bring some iodine and band-aids, and come quick.

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), August 12, 1999.

Lon, didn't we teach you in the circus how to knock on wood? :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), August 12, 1999.

Lon,

I hope that wasn't a colorist slur towards us tender folks born of certain mane-ly persuasion.

-- flora (***@__._), August 12, 1999.

flora,

What?, slur?, me?, colorist? Why, why, I, I, I never did no such thing, and I won't never do it again! Ya gotta believe me!

(And BTW, just what are you talking about?)

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), August 12, 1999.

Lon,

The reference was to the whispy things, all is forgiven -- our tempers are only legends {yeah, right}

-- flora (***@__._), August 12, 1999.

flora,

No, no. The whispy orange hair was a reference to my role as an old clown (it came naturally) in the great Yourdon Y2K Circus. Look for the threads in the archives. It was a brief, wonderful experiment in silliness, that for a while entertained us and brought us together. I definately think we need another one.

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), August 12, 1999.

An example that I saw today: someone made a post concerned about the fact that their job might end. The very first response was "So what?"

I, too, am saddened that some people choose to reveal a brutish lack of understanding and empathy, when they voice their opinions. However, I still think that insensitive, smart-assed and/or non-sequitor comments are a small price to pay for a free and open forum.

I also wonder about those dissappearing threads, that Chris mentioned. I haven't wanted to jump on the paranoia band wagon, and stat hollering about it, but what's the deal with that, anyway?

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 13, 1999.

[ We wrote this on another thread plagued with tart remarks; fits here too ;^]

All, not to worry. You could post, and upload pics, of aliens come to your front door demanding escort to your "leader," and zzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzzz nobody would eMail you ;^) Glazed daze, jaded and inured to serious facts, implications, and encroaching manifestations. zzzzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzzz

But know this with a satisfied tingle in your fingertips:

When the trolls come flicking their vacuous insults on a thread, it is a de facto stamp of
"CERTIFIED WORTHY INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN."

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 13, 1999.

Bokonon,

I don't think Chuck would delete a thread based on a contrarian opinion concerning Y2K or any of the issues associated with it. But, we seem to be on the verge of being overwhelmed by people posting opinions which are not asked for here. When we disagree with someone's views, that's discussion, but when we call them names, that's childish.

The one thread I noticed missing was the recent one about why the police hate us. It didn't make any point; it didn't ask for any discussion, and the language was, uh, unfortunate. (My grandad always said that a big part of becomming a man was learning how to cuss properly) I mean, I've heard 'em all, said 'em all; hell, I invented some of 'em. :)

But as Chuck says, for the sake of the new folks stopping by the neighborhood, let's keep the garbage off our streets.When someone reverts to name-calling, I just ignore the post, but when a thread is started to say nothing more than "I know so-and-so, and I slept with his wife", well, who cares?

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), August 13, 1999.

I'm just a rabid free-speecher, from way back.

In other posts I've made my opinion about GN known, but I would be just as upset as any of his true beleivers, if anyone ever tried to silence him.

(No, no! Please, everyone! I haven't heard any rumors. I just made that up, as an example. I have not - I repeat, I HAVE NOT - heard any rumors about GN being shut down.)

I think it's an easy slippery slope to start falling down, when we say, "You know, I don't like this kind of thing. It should be silenced". Round and round it goes, and where it stops, nobody knows. After all, everybody's got something they don't want to hear, and why should one person's sensibilities count any more than anyone elses?

I think basic "clan-death" usually takes care of the problem, if someone is really that out of step with everyone else around them. They get bored, tired of being ignored and move on.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 13, 1999.

Bokonon,

You're right, you're right, you're right. But just a little while ago you told me on my "insurance agency" thread, that you did not like threads about killing people, because they would frighten away more level headed people. This is what we are talking about here, not censorship, but gardianship. I'm just glad it's up to Chuck and Diane, and not me.

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), August 13, 1999.

iNFIdELs!!!!!! gIVe dIETER tHE keY YoU HYenaS!!!!!! wiLL YoU thEN seE THe faSteST DELeteR In thE WEst??????? oF COUrSE JACkaLs!!!!!! goNE WiLL Be foOLIshnESS And skULLmuCKerY In iT's entIRtY!!!!! goNE, gONe i SAy!!!!! foOLisH JAckasSELrY WouLD Be stUNTEd iN IT's grOWTh paTTERns!!!!!!! IdiOTs!!!!!

bEGonE!!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), August 13, 1999.

A disruptor on this forum is anyone that does not agree with y2k being really really bad. "discussion" is not encouraged, it is quelched. If you don't agree with the pessimists you will be shouted down or worse, the smooth talking oily voice of Bigdog will pounce on you and paint you with off-colors [don't believe that? see what that zealot _tried_ to do to a poster named "mr. decker". luckily senor decker outclasses Bigdog in the smarts department] if that doesn't work one of the "pasters" will show up and put gobs of useless information ad infinitem and then the bench warmers get called in to "flame the shit" out of everyone and everything they disagree with. admit that this place is only for like minded doomers and just delete everyone that you disagree with. then you can move on and the world will see the true colors of this place.

-- what a bunch (0f@hypo.crites), August 13, 1999.

Gayla,

What the hell are you crying about now? I don't see anything personally offensive to you in those responses. Just because everyone doesn't agree that everything you post is perfect doesn't mean they should be deleted. The beauty of the Internet is that it is one of the few places left where people can be free to express themselves without being censored. If you don't like it why don't you print your own publication that says exactly what you want people to hear - that's what most of the other media does. Quit whining and get a life!

-- @ (@@@.@), August 13, 1999.