Every day I wonder why it is that so many people choose to ignore what could turn out to be the biggest catastrophe this country/world has faced since WWII? And how the GI's in a family try so hard to warn the DGI/DWGI's.

I am mega guilty of trying to 'convince' the DGI/DWGI's in my life. But I have to say that I have finally come to the conclusion that maybe I have been taking the wrong approach. Instead of trying to 'convince' the DGI/DWGI's, maybe I should try using the tough love approach. Present them with the cold hard FACTS - not opinion - put it out there in black and white - facts that can not be disputed even by a diehard DWGI. Then just back off, because now it is their responsibility to choose which road to take.

BUT, I have to say that there is one exception to that rule, and that is the diehard DWGI's with small children. This is where I find it impossible to back off.

The one thing that really gets me about all of this is the people with small children. I don't care if these adult people decide to bury their heads in the sand and starve if the SHTF. But I do care if they are irresponsible when it comes to innocent little lives who depend on them to make a responsible decision.

As adults, they (even if 'they' are your own children, brothers or sisters) have every right to choose to not prepare (for themselves). If they believe y2k is a pile of crap, a hoax, they have the right to gamble with their own lives, but they do not (at least in my book), have the right to gamble with the lives of those depending on them to make a responsible decision. The children don't have a choice or a voice. They have to depend on these adult parents to make the right decision to protect them. Every day these same parents do everything within their power to protect their children by taking them to the doctor for their shots, to the dentist, to school, warn them about strangers. Why is it that these same parents don't see that it is their responsibility to at least prepare for a week as FEMA recommends in order to protect the children?

I don't personally care if they believe y2k is a hoax or not. I don't care if they choose to starve if the SHTF. I do care that children may go hungry or worse, because their parents choose to ignore the fact that there is even the slightest chance that there could be a food, water, medicine shortages.

This is what I said to my adult daughter, mother of four (ages 9mos - 7yrs). She was a diehard DWGI - didn't even want to talk about it. I finally just said to her, "fine, it is up to you if you choose to gamble with your own life, but you are the mother of four little babies. You have a responsibility to them. Are you willing to bet 'their' lives on your belief that nothing is going to happen on Jan 1?"

That got her attention, and I did not say another word. I waited. Less than a week later she called me and she brought up the subject of y2k and storing food 'just in case'. She sought out some information on her own, and went to one of the many good prep sites and the rest is history. She now says that she believes it will be a bump in the road, and the lights will probably go out - but not in her area because her electric company said they are y2k ready (PECO in PA). I just chuckle to myself that she is so naive and trusting, and I don't say a word. I am just so grateful that she is preparing 'just in case'.

She lives in PA and I live in MA. We just made a trip out there to visit and we took along a trunk load of goodies from BJ's. ;-)

We have two other grown children. One DWGI daughter in CO and a stubborn DWGI son locally. We have let our son know that we are preparing enough for him at our house. End of story there. As for our other daughter in CO, I am worried about her. I continue to keep her informed. Told her that is my job.

I'm a bottom line kind of person, and I have leaned that no matter how hard you try you can not change anyone's mind. The only thing you can do is arm them with the cold hard facts. The rest is up to them.

Maybe that would be a good exercise for all of us. What exactly are to cold hard facts as you see them?

-- flb (fben4077@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999

Answers

I couldn't agree more.

I just posted an analogy about this, about de jager and toddlers.

why put your kids lives at risk when you don't have to?

I totally agree with you

-- the artist formerly known as SuperLurker (Slfsl@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.

At some point in the recent past 70 or so percent of the American people apparently believed that Pig Boy Clinton was a great President. How in the world can you expect to make many converts from people that believe network news shows, and Democrat drivel.

-- rambo (rambo@thewoods.com), August 05, 1999.

The cold hard facts are that nobody can tell you exactly what is going to happen. There is too much conflicting information and too many historical examples of government deceit to believe the 3 day storm analogy profferred by big and small government alike. ITS NOT THE ODDS ITS THE STAKES!!!

I could not agree more about the children. If I had only myself to worry about, I would have spent less money and made different choices. My child is not going to freeze, starve, die of dehydration or be victimized by anybody if I can do ANYTHING to prevent it. ITS NOT THE ODDS, ITS THE STAKES. I hope to God nothing happens. Or that the worst thing is that no more cheap Taiwanese shoes make their way into Wal-mart. I am so scared of my son getting ill and needing medical care and not having it. That scares me more then the alleged "welfare mutant mobs" coming for what I have hoarded :) I pray that I AM proven to be a paranoid crackpot. I have got nothing to prove or gain by any of this except keeping my family safe and healthy. I don't see how any parent who had read anything about Y2k, using even a modicum of critical thinking skills could NOT prepare for their families. Best of luck to you and your family.

-- (paranoid@crackpot.com), August 05, 1999.

Here's why people don't want to get it:

It could happen. It might happen. Maybe it will happen. Don't know for sure if it will happen. I don't have the cold hard facts because there are no cold hard facts. The media says everything is okay so why should I believe you? Nothing has happened in the last 70 years. The economy is good and I'm employed. You haven't told me anything to convince me, maybe you're wrong. I don't want to hear anything negative, I'm already stressed out with work and family. The government would not lie about something like this. The government will take care of me and my family. I've never gone without food, water or power for more than a day. You're a scare monger and maybe you should get some professional help. Quit laying that guilt trip on me how my babies are going to die. Where's your proff? Just give me the cold hard facts and they better be good ones too!

-- devilsadvocate (devilsadvocate@devilsadvocate.com), August 05, 1999.

Another clue as to why youre finding the crusade such hard going can be found here. Interesting reading. I dont suggest it means anything more than what it says at face value . . but I freuqently hear those of a pessimistic nature saying "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its probably a duck". Well indeed.

http://www.ironic.com/y2k/

Kind Regards

W

-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.

Mild case--prices will go up and some things will be hard to get. Would you stock up now? Maybe, so. Worst case--there will be no distribution and most things will be impossible to get. Stok up? I think so. No politics, no need for very complex beliefs. There are some problems. Do some prep. Why not?

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), August 05, 1999.

If I knew the answer, maybe I could get my husband to look at Y2K as I do. Sometimes we will be talking about our children, and his eyes will tear up with the emotion of his love for them. He is prudent and conservative and self-reliant in almost every area I can think of, and never wants to throw old stuff away because he "might need it someday". He will jump out of bed in the middle of the night and rush off to answer a 911 call for a paramedic to respond to a car accident or possible heart attack, even though it may put him in the position of being with someone who is dying, or who dies while he is trying to save them. He goes even tho it sometimes turns out to be nothing but a fender bender or a late meal that didn't agree with someone. No one pays him to do this; he volunteers to do this because someone has to, and too few others are willing or able. In other words, he is not afraid to face unknown situations that have the potential to be scary, and he believes in being prepared.

But the world he lives in is pretty well-organized and satisfying, and he gets angry if I suggest that it might not be like that for a few weeks or months, I think because I am suggesting that we might have to "go" where he has never gone before and has no desire to EVER. Neither do I, I tell him, but if events force us to, it might not be as scary if we have mentally and materially prepared a little to make the best of it. I think it's about trying to be a responsible mom and human being, and believing that I have no right to expect other people to do more for my kids than I am willing to do for them myself. The very fact that so many people are doing nothing about but waiting with their fingers crossed, makes me even more sure that I do not want to rely on the same strategy. I've seen how ugly some people get at the grocery store when a few staples run low from the effects of a bad blizzard. I'm afraid they will totally lose it if they have no heat or water at home, and the lights are off in the commercial districts, too, with no gasoline to pump, and no one to sell them what they don't already have. I do not want to run the risk of BECOMING one of those desperate people, or having to get into some government assistance lines with them to obtain water and food for my family to survive. The trick is to live in this dual mode -- praying for the best, but preparing for the worst -- without getting defensive about the choice to do so.

An analogy for me is that everyone in the country, and most of the rest of the world, is going to have to take a test (of sorts) very soon. Some of us are inclined to study for it really hard, because we think it could have important consequences and difficult questions to think through. Some people just hate to study and won't do it, no matter what it costs them. Some people would be willing to study for a hard test, but not for this one because they are really busy/tired/natural procrastinators, and they hear it is supposed to be a cake-walk anyway. I'm one of those people who usually overprepared for tests in school, because I liked taking tests and doing well.

Whatever my take on Y2K, there's nothing to gain by being nasty with people who presently have a different one, or just aren't sure what to think. Not only is it a waste of my energy to be angry at people who don't see things the way I do, but it makes them even less likely to choose my way of thinking/being. It also would be arrogant and foolish to say I KNOW what is going to happen, when I think no one in this world can claim to know for sure. And we all need to remember that whether we believe things are going to change alot for awhile, or not at all, we will all (hopefully) be around to see how it turns out and to make the most of it, for the rest of our lives after the rollover. How is doing what we think is right ever justification for treating others with disrespect? Those are some of the thoughts your posting set off with me .. thanks for prompting me to think about it today. It reminded me what the point of survival is really about; it's not about being right or smarter than anybody else, it's about being able to continue being with people I love and being able to make the time count for something positive. follow my example.

-- Kristi (KsaintA@aol.com), August 05, 1999.

If I knew the answer, maybe I could get my husband to look at Y2K as I do. Sometimes we will be talking about our children, and his eyes will tear up with the emotion of his love for them. He is prudent and conservative and self-reliant in almost every area I can think of, and never wants to throw old stuff away because he "might need it someday". He will jump out of bed in the middle of the night and rush off to answer a 911 call for a paramedic to respond to a car accident or possible heart attack, even though it may put him in the position of being with someone who is dying, or who dies while he is trying to save them. He goes even tho it sometimes turns out to be nothing but a fender bender or a late meal that didn't agree with someone. No one pays him to do this; he volunteers to do this because someone has to, and too few others are willing or able. In other words, he is not afraid to face unknown situations that have the potential to be scary, and he believes in being prepared.

But the world he lives in is pretty well-organized and satisfying, and he gets angry if I suggest that it might not be like that for a few weeks or months, I think because I am suggesting that we might have to "go" where he has never gone before and has no desire to EVER. Neither do I, I tell him, but if events force us to, it might not be as scary if we have mentally and materially prepared a little to make the best of it. I think it's about trying to be a responsible mom and human being, and believing that I have no right to expect other people to do more for my kids than I am willing to do for them myself. The very fact that so many people are doing nothing about but waiting with their fingers crossed, makes me even more sure that I do not want to rely on the same strategy. I've seen how ugly some people get at the grocery store when a few staples run low from the effects of a bad blizzard. I'm afraid they will totally lose it if they have no heat or water at home, and the lights are off in the commercial districts, too, with no gasoline to pump, and no one to sell them what they don't already have. I do not want to run the risk of BECOMING one of those desperate people, or having to get into some government assistance lines with them to obtain water and food for my family to survive. The trick is to live in this dual mode -- praying for the best, but preparing for the worst -- without getting defensive about the choice to do so.

An analogy for me is that everyone in the country, and most of the rest of the world, is going to have to take a test (of sorts) very soon. Some of us are inclined to study for it really hard, because we think it could have important consequences and difficult questions to think through. Some people just hate to study and won't do it, no matter what it costs them. Some people would be willing to study for a hard test, but not for this one because they are really busy/tired/natural procrastinators, and they hear it is supposed to be a cake-walk anyway. I'm one of those people who usually overprepared for tests in school, because I liked taking tests and doing well.

Whatever my take on Y2K, there's nothing to gain by being nasty with people who presently have a different one, or just aren't sure what to think. Not only is it a waste of my energy to be angry at people who don't see things the way I do, but it makes them even less likely to choose my way of thinking/being. It also would be arrogant and foolish to say I KNOW what is going to happen, when I think no one in this world can claim to know for sure. And we all need to remember that whether we believe things are going to change alot for awhile, or not at all, we will all (hopefully) be around to see how it turns out and to make the most of it, for the rest of our lives after the rollover. How is doing what we think is right ever justification for treating others with disrespect? Those are some of the thoughts your posting set off with me .. thanks for prompting me to think about it today. It reminded me what the point of survival is really about; it's not about being right or smarter than anybody else, it's about being able to continue being with people I love and being able to make the time count for something positive. follow my example.

-- Kristi (KsaintA@aol.com), August 05, 1999.

If I knew the answer, maybe I could get my husband to look at Y2K as I do. Sometimes we will be talking about our children, and his eyes will tear up with the emotion of his love for them. He is prudent and conservative and self-reliant in almost every area I can think of, and never wants to throw old stuff away because he "might need it someday". He will jump out of bed in the middle of the night and rush off to answer a 911 call for a paramedic to respond to a car accident or possible heart attack, even though it may put him in the position of being with someone who is dying, or who dies while he is trying to save them. He goes even tho it sometimes turns out to be nothing but a fender bender or a late meal that didn't agree with someone. No one pays him to do this; he volunteers to do this because someone has to, and too few others are willing or able. In other words, he is not afraid to face unknown situations that have the potential to be scary, and he believes in being prepared.

But the world he lives in is pretty well-organized and satisfying, and he gets angry if I suggest that it might not be like that for a few weeks or months, I think because I am suggesting that we might have to "go" where he has never gone before and has no desire to EVER. Neither do I, I tell him, but if events force us to, it might not be as scary if we have mentally and materially prepared a little to make the best of it. I think it's about trying to be a responsible mom and human being, and believing that I have no right to expect other people to do more for my kids than I am willing to do for them myself. The very fact that so many people are doing nothing about but waiting with their fingers crossed, makes me even more sure that I do not want to rely on the same strategy. I've seen how ugly some people get at the grocery store when a few staples run low from the effects of a bad blizzard. I'm afraid they will totally lose it if they have no heat or water at home, and the lights are off in the commercial districts, too, with no gasoline to pump, and no one to sell them what they don't already have. I do not want to run the risk of BECOMING one of those desperate people, or having to get into some government assistance lines with them to obtain water and food for my family to survive. The trick is to live in this dual mode -- praying for the best, but preparing for the worst -- without getting defensive about the choice to do so.

An analogy for me is that everyone in the country, and most of the rest of the world, is going to have to take a test (of sorts) very soon. Some of us are inclined to study for it really hard, because we think it could have important consequences and difficult questions to think through. Some people just hate to study and won't do it, no matter what it costs them. Some people would be willing to study for a hard test, but not for this one because they are really busy/tired/natural procrastinators, and they hear it is supposed to be a cake-walk anyway. I'm one of those people who usually overprepared for tests in school, because I liked taking tests and doing well.

Whatever my take on Y2K, there's nothing to gain by being nasty with people who presently have a different one, or just aren't sure what to think. Not only is it a waste of my energy to be angry at people who don't see things the way I do, but it makes them even less likely to choose my way of thinking/being. It also would be arrogant and foolish to say I KNOW what is going to happen, when I think no one in this world can claim to know for sure. And we all need to remember that whether we believe things are going to change alot for awhile, or not at all, we will all (hopefully) be around to see how it turns out and to make the most of it, for the rest of our lives after the rollover. How is doing what we think is right ever justification for treating others with disrespect? Those are some of the thoughts your posting set off with me .. thanks for prompting me to think about it today. follow my example.

-- Kristi (KsaintA@aol.com), August 05, 1999.

There are no cold, hard facts. I've given up on everyone - my friends, family, the children, even my wife. I tell them not to believe *me*, but to seek out the "facts" on their own. They think I'm crazy - to hell with 'em - to hell with 'em all! I have no idea what to believe myself anymore, much less what to tell anyone else. Everything in major *spin* cycle, I'm getting dizzy.

Jim, who's had a bad Y2K day.

-- Jim (x@x.x), August 05, 1999.

FWIW,

I remember how I felt last year as I tried to get those I cared about to even consider Y2K. I still CARE about others, but I don't WORRY about others any more. Heck, I don't even know if I'll be alive a year from now -- wether from Y2K or more normal causes.

I was talking to a friend of mine 'bout a week ago. She was telling me about her friend she had told about Y2K, who "got it", but who WOULD NOT take any time nor spend any money to "prep". This person was bound and determined to have as good a time as she possibly could on all the money she could spend on entertainment. My friend then said, she told me "well, I know where I can go...you will have food...at least I will have plenty to eat". My friend is low income. She has a kid. It's all she can do to "prep" for her and her kid.

She told me that she KNOWS her friend would not come alone, but bring a bunch of others along -- with THEIR others! She said "Hey, she has as much if not more time and money as I do to prepare. She would rather have a good time and just sponge off me. I know she would bring her grandkids with her, knowing I wouldn't hardly be able to say no. But I'm going to have to tell her that hey, I just can't take care of anybody else if TSHTF...it's all I can do to pay my bills now". As I shared with her, I'll share with you my "progression":

1) Live and let live.

2) Live and let die.

3) Whatever.

The reason for "Whatever" is that I don't know if I'll make it or not due to various reasons. I care about many, but I've learned to value DETACHMENT. I'm not WORRYING anymore. I figure people will just have to do the best they can -- like I and everybody else will have to do. I'm not going to give my stuff away, or listen to them try to CON --- that's right, I said CON -- me out of my stuff by praying upon my good heartedness. I've learned that lots of people I have known are just USERS who will do/take/whatever they can from/of you to "carry on with their "party". Hey, I don't care if anyone would rather "party" than "prep". I hope they have a wonderful time. But I don't want them partying on my dime or on my time!! I have to remind myself often that I'm important too!! If TSHTF, the USERS can go CON and USE somebody else, if they can. I think this is the RIGHT way to be. I don't think I'm "bad", uncaring or wrong for feeling this way. If you disagree, that's fine. You do what you want with your preps, I'll do what I want with mine. End of discussion.

-- Louis (StLouisLouis@Yahoo.com), August 05, 1999.

Some kind of psychological thing is happening to the hard core GI here. No payoff is happening for their preps or spreading the word and they are reacting negatively and it is affecting them enough to note it often here.

I think the hardcore GI will eventually self-destruct.

-- worried-gi (worried-gi@whatsup.com), August 05, 1999.

The "payoff" happens when Y2K hits and you starve and I don't. Until then, it doesn't really matter. Louis is absolutely right, his preps are his and he's not responsible for the rest of the world. None of us are. We did what we could but when TSHTF, those who have prepared will live and those who haven't will die. It's pretty simple, even for a stupid polly to understand.

-- (its@coming.soon), August 05, 1999.

-- worried-gi TROLL commented:

"I think the hardcore GI will eventually self-destruct."

The GI will be around long after your pushing up daisies !!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 05, 1999.

"Some kind of psychological thing is happening to the hard core GI here. No payoff is happening for their preps or spreading the word and they are reacting negatively and it is affecting them enough to note it often here.

I think the hardcore GI will eventually self-destruct. "

Good point. I've noticed that too. We're all obsessed with this thing & it's making us stupid, mean & irrational.

Keep in mind also -- preparing for y2k does NOT necessarily mean you'll be alive a year from now. It may be the best bet, but it's not a sure thing at all.

That only adds to the stress, don't you think?

-- oh crap (you@are.right), August 05, 1999.