I love Y2K for one reason. It has confirmed a suspicion of mine I carried for a long time. It goes like this - I've always thought that the majority of people who are considered 'intelligent', who attended university, who excelled in music or computer science, who had well-paying jobs etc, are really not that 'smart'. And Y2K has proven this to me, without a doubt. While I immediately, and quite simply understood the ramifications of this problem, I now see all the smart people struggling to make sense of this. So all you brains out there, you know what, all you really know is how to regurgitate. You never really learned to 'think for yourself'. And THAT is why you don't get it. As far as Y2K Pro and Doomers etc, well you guys are prehistoric, not only can you not think for yourself, you can't even regurgitate, so there's absolutely no hope for you (sorry). So really, intelligence is the ability to create original thought, or arrive at logical, yet correct decisions. This requires thought, and despite what you all 'intelligentsia' might believe, if you don't get Y2K, you're really NOT THAT SMART!

SAYwhat

-- SAYwhat (foo@foo.com), July 23, 1999

Answers

SAYwhat, I agree with you to a certain point, however, it's pure and simple common sense that will save you. I'd much rather have a head full of common sense than a whole lot of knowledge on why a rubber band stretches. You see, I'm not a college graduate and I would much rather be cleverly one step ahead of the intellectual than one step behind.

-- notsodumb (notsodumb@notsodumb.com), July 23, 1999.

No, no, we agree completely. Smartness = common sense. Intelligence is the ability (and agility) to think for oneself. Everything else is just a lable hiding an insecurity hiding ignorance. Not that we all can't learn to become truly intelligent, but it requires a little independent 'directional finding'. Got to stop believing what we hear or read. Got to start understanding stuff ON OUR OWN TERMS. Then, not only will you 'get' Y2K, you'll also 'get' everything else.

SAYwhat

-- SAYwhat (foo@foo.com), July 23, 1999.

notsodumb, you lack self-esteem. How about "imrealsmart". Or "intheknow". Or even "toocoolforschool".

????

(And I'm real sorry that I called you a moron way back when. I didn't mean it.)

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), July 23, 1999.

A degree doesn't give you common sense. Is this a new revelation? Some of the 'dumbest' people I know are attending grad school.

-- maruchan (spgin@intnet.net), July 23, 1999.

King of Spain: Bow down at my doorstep and throw down your crown and I will throw you a bone.

-- notsodumb (notsodumb@notsodumb.com), July 23, 1999.

Whatever expository detritus those geniuses spew, remember this:

Common sense is Y2K compliant.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), July 23, 1999.

SAYwhat,

I have my bones with common sense. I've come to believe one needs uncommon sense to make wise decisions in today's world. Not all intelectuals are fools, and not all ignorant people have common sense. What happens when what you call common sense, is actually an ill meme?(my term) That would be when uncommon sense is needed. What excactly do you mean by get it? Am I afraid? Or does it mean am I preparing for future events?

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), July 23, 1999.

look where knowledge has brought us.we sold heart=knowing-for HEAD knowing.the B-I-B-L-E. say,s the fear[respect] of GOD is the beggining of WISDOM. how much WISDOM is being used today??? knowledge without WISDOM is dangerous.---flame-on. it won,t change a thing. or be WISE and seek WISDOM.****man-proposes==GOD-disposes.****

-- knowledge?? (dogs@zianet.com), July 23, 1999.

al,

Gotta hand it to you, you are consistent. Does anybody remember wich tree Eve ate the apple from?

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), July 23, 1999.

We are all born with our own gifts. When we can see not only our own, but those in others, then we will have reached our potential as a species.

-- B (hunting@nm.com), July 23, 1999.

I'd like protest the general assertion that y2k is an intelligence test to be used as an opportunity to denigrate others - especially singling out those with advanced education. There are plenty of folks I've listened to that are currently taking no ACTION that do not have the benefits of advanced degrees. I know many people who are very intelligent, university-educated, extremely nice people who are not taking any action, either.

My 2 cents' worth . . .

(1) people who have been through some 'hard knocks' (like me) know through experience that beneath the outward appearances of peace and prosperity are no personal guarantees. These folks are more likely to act eventhough we don't understand everything there is to know about y2k. Heck, I don't really understand electricity. But I don't need to understand it to use a light switch or be bothered by a power outtage either.

(2) some people have an innate gift for being able to conceptualize systems. Being intellegent in the sense that you can be more accurate in your "visualization" relating from facts helps, but I still think the ability to conceptualize a model is an innate talent.

(3) some people are just very 'invested' in things being the way they are. They've bet the farm that stuff will just keep cruizing along, and can't back out easily because of committments made before y2k awareness came along. It's not that their choices were necessarily stupid, conditions and expectations changed.

One thing is for sure regarding the professional university environment. They don't call it the 'ivory tower' for nothing. When you enter the campus' grounds, you ain't just moving into another time zone, it's an alternative universe. Tenured professors, etc., experience an alternative reality. Insulation from the real knock- about world is very, very thick and very, very soft. Not to say that a little blood-letting dosen't happen every now and then, but it's usually confined to stuff like: the administration vs the physics department OR the first violinist thinks the conductor is a jackass that dosen't know a cello from a bass.

Tell you what, if you wrapped me in 20' of cotton wool, fed me cafeteria food for 15 years and made it almost impossible for me to be fired, I'm not sure if I'd take any bets on my ability to see anything coming down the road at me even if it were a COORS 18- wheeler with some guy and a bloodhound in the cab.

-- Karl (valleycable@earthlink.net), July 23, 1999.

Karl, I could sit and listen to you for days on end........

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), July 23, 1999.

Karl, the point of all this discussion is very simple, and doesn't single out any one group. The ability to live on one's own terms requires an independence of mind, body and spirit. This is the meaning of intelligence. All that other stuff is 'labelled reality'. Why I love Y2K is that is proves my point, that what we deem 'intelligence' is really pseudo-intelligence. I've tackled some of the hardest questions in epistemology without the benefit of a degree, simply because going into a university environment is too limiting . Y2K is really a test, the type they don't administer in university, or anywhere else very often. It is LIFE AND DEATH, and what it will do is separate the wheat from the chaff very quickly indeed. If will force people to revaluate their whole perspective on everything they are doing, plan to do, etc. Which is the true test of intelligence, not some lame IQ quotient.

SAYwhat

-- SAYwhat (foo@foo.com), July 23, 1999.

Gee thanks everyone. After dealing with Y2K PRO, I was afraid I wouldn't be able to locate my toothbrush this morning :(

Maybe I should give it the big effort, eh? I'm only a hairbender ya know. Never been to college, only know my way around a farm, boo-hoo. Is there ANY hope for me at all?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 23, 1999.

Will continue,

There is more hope for you than most... if you catch my drift...: )

snoozin'...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 23, 1999.

If you've experienced small break-downs, it's just a matter of imagining a large one.

I've sat & waited helplessly for the geeks to fix the computers. I've sat & waited helplessly for the electricians to turn the juice back on. I've sat & waited for the highway patrol & tow trucks to rescue me from the shoulder of 6 lanes of fast traffic. I know that horrible feeling of being at the mercy of technology that doesn't work & which I can't fix myself. That experience, on a massive scale, is how I imagine y2k to be. Not pleasant. (I avoid elevators as much as possible.)

But since experience with break-downs is pretty common, I have to wonder: Could it be that DGI's, intelligent or otherwise, simply lack imagination?

-- can (you@imagine.it), July 23, 1999.

I'd rather collect wisdom... gathered from life experiences... then apply *some* WISE common sense to extraordinary challenges.

And preferably think outside the box.

Diane

Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." -- Albert Einstein

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -- Albert Einstein

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein

"If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith." -- Albert Einstein

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

A university education does not equal inteligence. It never has. One thing non college people believe is that, in college, they give you the answers to magical questions which the common person does not know. This is totally wrong. College teaches the process of learning and how to find information. When you graduate from college that is the thing that you have proven.

The best part is that the average college educated person is just as intelligent as the average non college educated person, vice versa. So, now when that high school graduate goes to his first year of college, fails out, and comes back home saying "they did not know anything." Tell them, their right, but they missed the point of college. College is a learning experience and they just did not get it! Now, get off the stool and give it another try.

I graduated college, and those people who did not get it, are still making $6.00/hour 15 years lator(note that plumbers/electricians make more but it is a learned skill).

-- Ned P Zimmer (ned@nednet.com), July 23, 1999.

Ned, I guess my point is, there's a difference between being 'educated', and having an 'education'. That's really what this whole discussion boils down to. The western world places a premium on having an education. Its sad really, because it displaces the whole learning experience. I don't really agree that school is where you go to learn, or learn how to learn. Its a limiting experience, if you want really deep answers. Einstein developed his theories at work, not in school. Michelangelo flunked out of grammer school. Anyone really interested in delving into deeper meanings won't learn how to in college or university. Which is probably why the majority of people don't 'get' Y2K, at least those who you would expect to 'get it'. They've got too much education!

SAYwhat

-- SAYwhat (foo@foo.com), July 23, 1999.

Actually Dog, I'm not too sure how to take that, so I'll choose exuberant optimism and take that as a compliment of sorts! LOL

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 23, 1999.

Will continue,

You have seen the Chevrolet new truck commercials where they are building a truck for the one percenters??? Well, if you are a GI, you are prepped, and as far as disruptions are concerned you are a one percenter, and better off than the other 99%....

I hope I explained myself... Will continue, no offense intended...

scratchin'...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 23, 1999.

This thread is probably too long already, but... here's a simple definition of intelligence that I like a lot:

Stopping doing what doesn't work and trying something else.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), July 23, 1999.

I for got to add that the simple definition of creativity is:

Figuring out something to try next that you haven't tried before.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), July 23, 1999.

Why I love Y2K,

If you aren't prepared it won't matter one Iota if you are smart, a know it all, or not all that.

Do what you can NOW, so you can help the other fools who don't prepare.

Father

-- Thomas G. Hale (hale.tg@att.net), July 23, 1999.

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." (John Kenneth Galbraith)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), July 24, 1999.