Completely off-topic but amazing if the outcome is bad (might make one wonder about the "Kennedy curse," as in plane crashes, assassinations, fatal auto accidents. Boy, Oh Boy. . .)

Message Board: Share Your Concerns JFK Jr.'s Plane Reported Missing

.c The Associated Press WEST TISBURY, Mass. (July 17) - A small plane carrying John F. Kennedy, Jr., to a wedding in Hyannisport, Mass., was reported missing early today, and a search was under way off the coast of New York's Long Island, Coast Guard officials said today.

The plane took off from Essex Airport in Caldwell, N.J., at 8:45 p.m. Friday and was carrying Kennedy, his wife Carolyn Bessette, and her sister, the Coast Guard said.

The passengers were en route to the Cape Cod-Martha's Vineyard area where the Kennedy family was gathering for a wedding today. The Kennedys were due to arrive in Martha's Vineyard at 10 p.m. Friday, a source in Washington told The Associated Press.

Under hot, hazy skies, Coast Guard crews and the Air Force scoured a large swath of sea today from eastern Long Island to Martha's Vineyard, along the presumed flight path of Kennedy's plane.

President Clinton, who is spending the weekend at Camp David in western Maryland, was told about the disappearance of the Kennedy plane by John Podesta, his chief of staff, shortly after 7 a.m. Saturday, the White House said.

Press Secrtetary Joe Lockhart said the president was being kept informed of the progress of the search for the missing aircraft.

Jamie Gaspar, an operations specialist at Martha's Vineyard Airport, said Kennedy's plane was supposed to arrive Friday night, but never did.

''I'm a little worried, because I know him personally,'' Gaspar said.

Eddie Martin, of Hyannisport, who described himself as a friend of the family, said he was told Kennedy was headed for Martha's Vineyard and was then to go to the wedding of a cousin, Rory, daughter of the late Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, in Hyannisport

According to an earlier announcement from the office of U.S. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., the couple was to be married today before 275 guests in a private ceremony.

The wedding was canceled today as the search began.

The source told the AP the plane took off from Caldwell, N.J., and was headed to Martha's Vineyard, and did not file a flight plan, to the knowledge of the Federal Aviation Administration, though he was not required to.

The Kennedy family contacted the FAA when the plane, a Piper Saratoga, was overdue, and the agency began checking airports along the route, the source said.

The Coast Guard and Air National Guard then started a search.

Kennedy, 38, is the only surviving son of the 35th president, and was born just two months before his father's inauguration.

His father's assassination immediately thrust him into the public eye with with the poignant photo of the little boy saluting as his funeral procession passed.

Unlike other family members, Kennedy never entered politics. After graduating from Brown University, he went to law school and joined the Manhattan district attorney's office.

The law didn't hold much appeal for Kennedy, and in 1995 he launched the magazine George - subtitled ''not just politics as usual.'' A year later, Kennedy - once dubbed ''the sexiest man alive'' by People magazine - married girlfriend Carolyn Bessette.

:(

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), July 17, 1999

Answers

I woke up to the news this am. Still shocked.

Mike

===================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), July 17, 1999.

Thanks for the "heads up" FM.

Don't feel like Y2K discussions today.

I remember his little salute, as his father's casket rolled by. Very sad news.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 17, 1999.

I woke up at 3 AM (not knowing about the missing plane) and was thinking about how I thought America, and the world has been going down hill ever since the two kennedy brothers died back in the early 60's. Back then there was the sprit that "we" could do anything and that it was for the good of man/womankind.

Very sad indeed, when I got up later in the morning and turned on the tv and heard the report of plane missing.

-- dw (y2k@outhere.com), July 17, 1999.

I wonder how Mary Jo Kopekne's family feels at this moment.

Most of you probably don't even know who she was.

I too am saddened by this tragedy, but let's get it into perspective. That picture of the young boy saluting will be on every magazine and newspaper by the end of this week.

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), July 17, 1999.

As this forum tends to bring out a wide variety of conspiracy theories, I wonder what you regular posters might read into this developing tragedy for the Kennedy clan. Ive believed for many, many years that Old Joes debts are being paid, one by one, at a terrible cost to the family. I dont want to seem un-caring at this time but what do you smart people think about all of this.comments?

-- For (your@info.com), July 17, 1999.

"30 Years to the weekend of Chappaquiddick" (Matt Drudge).

PS: The implications that the Kennedy's were a bad bunch therefore justifies their murder is too arrogant for me. (snip: 'wonder how Mary Jo Kopekne's family feels at this moment'),

What is interesting is how well secrets can be kept, even BIG ONES, just by submitting mixed information into the media.

This is why people don't know if oat bran is good for for them or not, global warming is happening or not - or - is y2k a real event or a hyped software bonanza.

-- dw (y2k@outhere.com), July 17, 1999.

Oatbran is really good for you.

Help's you poop regular.

Media weeping and griefmongering is bad for you.

Shortly Bill Clinton will make a statement designed for maximum presidential griefmongering nationalistic good. "I feel your pain America".

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), July 17, 1999.

It would be a sad day, if it were a Smith,Jones,etc..not just a Kennedy.

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@stalag13.com), July 17, 1999.

Gordon,

I wanted to ask you some questions regarding your last two posts, but I realized my questions were way too complex to set to paper. I guess I really cannot begin to understand your posts. Could you please clarify your thoughts? I am sure you would just ridicule my inept interpretations. To paraphrase a poster on an earlier thread... and your point is?

Thanks,

-- Uhmm.. (jfcp81a@prodigy.com), July 17, 1999.

It would not matter who it was, I would be just as concerned..It should be human nature. Instead I read cold heartless words. John, his wife and her sister did nothing to deserve such statements. He maybe a Kennedy but he should not be judged my his relatives scandles. My prayers are with them and their families.

-- Cassandra (american_storm@usa.net), July 17, 1999.

Three years to the day after the TWA Flight 800 crash?

And in the same general vicinity?

Good thing we're not a suspicious, conspiracy-minded nation.

-- too bad (about@john.john), July 17, 1999.

Ya gotta love Doomer logic. For the last year, all we heard from said Doomers was how bad it was going to be in April and July. The stock market will crash - people will start to panic, no one will be able to ignore it. Specific and definitive dates and actions were postulated. When nothing happened, these same Doomers have backped aled so fast they got whiplash. Are there no Doomers who will step forward and admit they were wrong? Anyone? April 1, 1999. On this date, Canada, Japan, and the State of New York begin their fiscal year. This will, of course, include dates beyond Y2K. As a result, planning systems, especially budgets that have not been repaired will fail as they attempt to process Y2K dates. Since New York City is the media capitol of the world, problems there will grab headlines worldwide. Problems in Japan will remind everyone again of how interconnected our world is. The Japanese will also be forced to admit that there systems might not make it. I expect the stock market to react and begin (or continue) its downward spiral. Public confidence will continue to wane and the number of Y2K optimists will continue to dwindle.

July 1, 1999. On this date, forty-four U.S. states begin their fiscal years. The problems that began in New York will now spread exponentially across the country and around the world. The public will feel the global and pervasive nature of the Y2K Problem for the first time. This will be further exacerbated by the fact that many states have not had the resources to adequately address their Millennium Bug problems. Consequently, the failures will be real and widespread.

From the 12 Oct 1998 issue of Westergaard - Michael Hyatt

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), July 17, 1999.

Hey Pro - that last had no relevance to what the reader's here were talking about.....

For a tremedous analysis of instrument flying, and what is the terrible danger of relying on "feelings" rather than technical facts - look at the link in this site: www.boortz.com

The writer is an instrument-qualified flyer - Kennedy was not, had had no business being aloft at that time, in those conditions of near twilight, in haze, over an ocean. I'm sorry he failed to understand his weakness, the family deserved no other losses.

I'm sorry too for the young bride who lost her familiy and friends on what should have been her most important day, "her happiest day."

But he (Kennedy) did it to himself through overconfidence in his feelings, his desire to get someplace without taking precautions, and his "desire" to make it despite the technical and training procedures he had NOT finished yet. A technical probelm - loss of ontrol of reference points because of poor visibility in the darkening haze - don't CARE whatyou want, the airplane will DO want you tell it.

Do the words: "it can't be that bad", "we don't want it to happen" and "they won't let it happen" remind anyone of a similar technical problem looming in the twilight haze?

The problem may not easily visible to the naked eye, but it is there nontheless?

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 17, 1999.

WOW!

What a great analogy, Mr Cook! You hit that one right out of the ballpark! :-D

-- Jim Morris (prism@bevcomm.net), July 17, 1999.

I guess sometimes Planes really do fall out of the sky!!!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 17, 1999.

JFK Jr had only 100 hours total flying time, was flying VFR (visual flight rules) in a model of aircraft he was very new to, over water, at night, with passengers and did not file a flight or even a request for flight following notifications. None of these things by themselves are wrong or against FAA rules. In combination they are not against FAA rules.

But to someone who has been part of search efforts for missing private aircraft, I CAN tell you that what he did wasn't illegal, but it certainly showed VERY poor judgement on his part as a pilot. JFK Jr intentionally put himself and his passengers into a situation where they depended on him and he had put himself in WAY OVER his head.

And to top it off, by not filing a flight plan or flight following request he delayed the start of any search himself. With either of these two forms simply being faxed or phoned-in to the FAA, when he did not report within 90 minutes of his estimated landing time, the search would have started then. Instead it had to wait until the next morning for soeone to call-in an overdue aircraft. How much time was lost, six hours or there abouts?

Night VFR flying is difficult when you have ten or twenty times more flight hours than he did. An over water landing approach on a dark night is hard when you're capable and qualified to fly instrument approaches.

Trying to fly an overwater, night VFR approach is like walking down a black-painted hallway without any lights on and trying not to walk into a black-painted, closed door. You're bound to nose into something.

If this shows anything relating to Y2K it's that some people are willing to ignore prudent options and risk their lives and the lives of others on the premise that they are right and that people who might urge prudent measures are wrong. I wonder how many people ever tried to convince JFK Jr to bother to call-in his flights? How many told him that night VFR over water is a sophisticated form of suicide? Did he brush these folks off as being a nusiance, because "He would never do anything stupid, 'cause he was who he was?"

Does this remind you of what you see in DGI's, DWGI's and Pollys? Is there any wonder that in many people's minds, Y2K is beginning to show "bracket creep" up the severity scales?

JFK Jr, a clueless pilot who went in way above his capabilities and paid the ultimate price for his mistake. And who cost two ther people their lives when they trusted him in saying "Flying at night? No problem." A true polly of the flying world.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), July 17, 1999.

Just experimenting with a newly simplified teaching tool for HTML. No offence intended!

I remember the Chemistry Lab and I remember filling a burette with dilute Hydrochloric acid to titrate a solution for Quantitative Analysis. A student rushed in and said 'The president had been shot!" I remember thinking, "who would shoot the College president?" When I REALLY understood what had befallen us (and I was in shock for six hours), I knew our world would NEVER be the same. Sadly, that has been so.

And now, JFK Jr. It's Terrible!!!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 17, 1999.

File this incident under the Y2K Doomer proof heading, Somehow they take these unrelated incidents and fabricate these wild notions that this is EXACTLY what Y2K is all about. Kind of like their bizare game of "told ya so!". Up until now JFK Jr. didn't play any part in the TB2000 forum... hmmm, I wonder why it does now?( death = postive reinforcment of a negative situation). Oh FORGIVE me! I keep forgeting that this forum has "evolved into something much deeper and wider than JUST y2k!" [[[ giant rolling horselaugh aside to audience ]]]

Yeah sure it has, it's evolved into a doomsday cult!

I think their meme is showing big time.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 17, 1999.

"Y2kPro" and "doomers.suck,"

You both have very strong opinions.

Have you ever considered the possibility of listing real email addresses so that some of us might be able to find out why?

Just wondering.

My email address is real, and always has been.

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), July 17, 1999.

I'd list my real e-mail address but I'm ascared some pack of D&G fantics will come busting down my door in the middle of the night and try to convert me. Oh wait a second that the paranoia talking, sorry, I've been cooped up in here so long the stench of it is clinging to my cookies.

Let's just say that there are a million sources for SPAMers to get a hold of e-mail addresses. This is one of them. Thanks but no thanks, I don't need to hear about the latest fat reduction pill or how Brittney Spears is dry humping dear old dad. Call me a recluse but that's the life I chose.

I'll be happy to answer questions on the BB for everyone to see.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

This is proof to the world that GOD IS JUST !! Goodness can not come from evil roots. This family was brought to power by a bootlegger.

-- nono (n0@no.com), July 18, 1999.

Wildweasel,

Hey guy, I noticed in an earlier post you had some connection with Electronic Warfare Systems. Don't think you were an EWO, but did some programming for countermeasure systems? Is that correct? I did a hitch at Barksdale in Shreveport LA. in the early 80's as an ECM Tech. We had 2 wings of Buffs and an A-10 warthog reserve unit. Lotta fun. Even had a SR-71 Blackbird land for emergency maintenance one time. And if you've ever been to Barksdale, you gotta love those alligators!

Motto at Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX. "Lead, follow, or get out of the way"

Same applies to life.

-- Aimin' High... (midwestmike_@hotmail.com), July 18, 1999.

Chappaquiddick, you say? I smelled a rat (and it wasn't Teddy) when it happened. Finally heard a good explanation. Try this one on for size.

http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html

The second clue is Chappaquiddick. A careful examination of the real evidence in this event shows that Ted Kennedy was framed in the killing of Mary Joe Kopechne and then his life and his children's lives threatened if he ever told the truth about what happened. The facts in the case and the conclusions that can be drawn from them are contained in a book by Boston researcher Robert Cutler.[2]

The third clue is Ted's withdrawal from the presidential race in November 1975. It is a fact that all of his and Robert's children were being protected by the Secret Service for five days in November 1975. A threat had been made against the children's lives unless he officially announced his withdrawal. He made the announcement and has stuck to it ever since. The Secret Service protection ended the day after he made the announcement.

It does not seem likely that Senator Kennedy would withdraw from the race because of a threat from a lone nut or from some obscure group. He remembers the 1965 threat and Chappaquiddick very well. He knows about the Power Control Group and he knows their enormous capability. He knows what they did to his brothers. He has no choice but to hope that somehow, sometime, the Group will be exposed. But he dares not let them believe he would ever have anything to do with it. Publicly he will always have to support the Warren Commission and continue to state that he will not run for president. Privately he is forced to ask his closest friends and his relatives not to get involved with new investigations, and to help protect his children. Some of them know the truth. Others do not, and are puzzled by his behavior. They go along with it under the assumption that he has good and sufficient reasons not to open the can of worms represented by the conspiracies in his brother's deaths.

The Power Control Group faced up to the Ted Kennedy and Kennedy family problem very early. They used the threat against the Kennedy children's lives very effectively between 1963 and 1968 to silence Bobby and the rest of the family and friends who knew the truth. It was necessary to assassinate Bobby in 1968 because with the power of the presidency he could have prevented the Group from harming the children. When Teddy began making moves to run for president in 1969 for the 1972 election, the Group decided to put some real action behind their threats. Killing Teddy in 1969 would have been too much. They selected a new way of eliminating him as a candidate. They framed him with the death of a young girl, and threw sexual overtones in for good measure.

Here is what happened according to Cutler's analysis of the evidence. The Group hired several men and at least one woman to be at Chappaquiddick during the weekend of the yacht race and the planned party on the island. They ambushed Ted and Mary Jo after they left the cottage and knocked Ted out with blows to his head and body. They took the unconscious or semi-conscious Kennedy to Martha's Vineyard and deposited him in his hotel room. Another group took Mary Jo to the bridge in Ted's car, force fed her with a knock out potion of alcoholic beverage, placed her in the back seat, and caused the car to accelerate off the side of the bridge into the water. They broke the windows on one side of the car to insure the entry of water; then they watched the car until they were sure Mary Jo would not escape.

Mary Jo actually regained consciousness and pushed her way to the top of the car (which was actually the bottom of the car -- it had landed on its roof) and died from asphyxiation. The group with Teddy revived him early in the morning and let him know he had a problem. Possibly they told him that Mary Jo had been kidnapped. They told him his children would be killed if he told anyone what had happened and that he would hear from them. On Chappaquiddick, the other group made contact with Markham and Gargan, Ted's cousin and lawyer. They told both men that Mary Jo was at the bottom of the river and that Ted would have to make up a story about it, not revealing the existence of the group. One of the men resembled Ted and his voice sounded something like Ted's. Markham and Gargan were instructed to go the the Vineyard on the morning ferry, tell Ted where Mary Jo was, and come back to the island to wait for a phone call at a pay station near the ferry on the Chappaquiddick side.

The two men did as they were told and Ted found out what had happened to Mary Jo that morning. The three men returned to the pay phone and received their instructions to concoct a story about the "accident" and to report it to the police. The threat against Ted's children was repeated at that time.

Ted, Markham and Gargan went right away to police chief Arena's office on the Vineyard where Ted reported the so-called "accident." Almost at the same time scuba diver John Farror was pulling Mary Jo out of the water, since two boys who had gone fishing earlier that morning had spotted the car and reported it.

Ted called together a small coterie of friends and advisors including family lawyer Burke Marshall, Robert MacNamara, Ted Sorenson, and others. They met on Squaw Island near the Kennedy compound at Hyannisport for three days. At the end of that time they had manufactured the story which Ted told on TV, and later at the inquest. Bob Cutler calls the story, "the shroud." Even the most cursory examination of the story shows it was full of holes and an impossible explanation of what happened. Ted's claim that he made the wrong turn down the dirt road toward the bridge by mistake is an obvious lie. His claim that he swam the channel back to Martha's Vineyard is not believable. His description of how he got out of the car under water and then dove down to try to rescue Mary Jo is impossible. Markham and Gargan's claims that they kept diving after Mary Jo are also unbelievable.

The evidence for the Cutler scenario is substantial. It begins with the marks on the bridge and the position of the car in the water. The marks show that the car was standing still on the bridge and then accelerated off the edge, moving at a much higher speed than Kennedy claimed. The distance the car travelled in the air also confirms this. The damage to the car on two sides and on top plus the damage to the windshield and the rear view mirror stanchion [3] prove that some of the damage had to have been inflicted before the car left the bridge.

The blood on the back and on the sleeves of Mary Jo's blouse proves that a wound was inflicted before she left the bridge.[4] The alcohol in her bloodstream proves she was drugged, since all witnesses testified she never drank and did not drink that night. The fact that she was in the back seat when her body was recovered indicates that is where she was when the car hit the water. There was no way she could have dived downward against the inrushing water and moved from the front to the back seat underneath the upside-down seat back.

The wounds on the back of Ted Kennedy's skull, those just above his ear and the large bump on the top indicate he was knocked out. His actions at the hotel the next morning show he was not aware of Mary Jo's death until Markham and Gargan arrived. The trip to the pay phone on Chappaquiddick can only be explained by his receiving a call there, not making one. There were plenty of pay phones in or near Ted's hotel if he needed to make a private call. The tides in the channel and the direction in which Ted claimed he swam do not match. In addition it would have been a superhuman feat to have made it across the channel (as proven by several professionals who subsequently tried it).

Deputy Sheriff Christopher Look's testimony, coupled with the testimony of Ray LaRosa and two Lyons girls, proves that there were two people in Ted's car with Mary Jo at 12:45 PM. The three party members walking along the road south toward the cottage confirmed the time that Mr. Look drove by. He stopped to ask if they needed a ride. Look says that just prior to that he encountered Ted's car parked facing north at the juncture of the main road and the dirt road. It was on a short extension of the north-south section of the road junction to the north of the "T". He says he saw a man driving, a woman in the seat beside him, and what he thought was another woman lying on the back seat. He remembered a portion of the license plate which matched Ted's car, as did the description of the car. Markham, Gargan and Ted's driver's testimony show that someone they talked to in the pitch black night sounded like Ted and was about his height and build.

None of the above evidence was ever explained by Ted or by anyone else at the inquest or at the hearing on the case demanded by district attorney Edward Dinis. No autopsy was ever allowed on Mary Jo's body (her family objected), and Ted made it possible to fly her body home for burial rather quickly. Kennedy haters have seized upon Chappaquiddick to enlarge the sexual image now being promoted of both Ted and Jack Kennedy. Books like "Teddy Bare" take full advantage of the situation.

Just which operatives in the Power Control Group at the high levels or the lower levels were on Chappaquiddick Island? No definite evidence has surfaced as yet, except for an indication that there was at least one woman and at least three men, one of whom resembled Ted Kennedy and who sounded like him in the darkness. However, two pieces of testimony in the Watergate hearings provide significant clues as to which of the known JFK case conspirators may have been there.

E. Howard Hunt told of a strange trip to Hyannisport to see a local citizen there about the Chappaquiddick incident. Hunt's cover story on this trip was that he was digging up dirt on Ted Kennedy for use in the 1972 campaign. The story does not make much sense if one questions why Hunt would have to wear a disguise, including his famous red wig, and to use a voice-alteration device to make himself sound like someone else. If, on the other hand, Hunt's purpose was to return to the scene of his crime just to make sure that no one who might have seen his group at the bridge or elsewhere would talk, then the disguise and the voice box make sense.

The other important testimony came from Tony Ulasewicz who said he was ordered by the Plumbers to fly immediately to Chappaquiddick and dig up dirt on Ted. The only problem Tony has is that, according to his testimony, he arrived early on the morning of the "accident", before the whole incident had been made public. Ulasewicz is the right height and weight to resemble Kennedy and with a CIA voice- alteration device he presumably could be made to sound like him. There is a distinct possibility that Hunt and Tony were there when it happened.

The threats by the Power Control Group, the frame-up at Chappaquiddick, and the murders of Jack and Bobby Kennedy cannot have failed to take their toll on all of the Kennedys. Rose, Ted, Jackie, Ethel and the other close family members must be very tired of it all by now. They can certainly not be blamed for hoping it will all go away. Investigations like those proposed by Henry Gonzalez and Thomas Downing only raised the spectre of the powerful Control Group taking revenge by kidnapping some of the seventeen children.

It was no wonder that a close Kennedy friend and ally in California, Representative Burton, said that he would oppose the Downing and Gonzalez resolutions unless Ted Kennedy put his stamp of approval on them. While the sympathies of every decent American go out to them, the future of our country and the freedom of the people to control their own destiny through the election process mean more than the lives of all the Kennedys put together. If John Kennedy were alive today he would probably make the same statement.

John Dean summed it up when he said to Richard Nixon as recorded on the White House tapes in 1973: "If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick. . . ."[5]

-- Think it began at (w@tergate.huh?), July 18, 1999.

w@tergate.huh?,

Hey guy your tinfoil hat needs reinforcement. Those microwaves are obviously leaking through big time.....

-- kozak (kozak@formerusaf.guv), July 18, 1999.

I think Kennedy's wife was ragging on him about flying in bad conditions. Then the sister-in-law piped in and took Carolyn's side against Kennedy. Kennedy lost control and now he is shark shit.

Oh Beautiful for spacious skys...

-- Anti-chainsaw (tree@hugger.com), July 18, 1999.

Interesting that one report late last night mentioned that many family members *including Teddy Kenedy* (never a risk-taker himself!) were wary of flying with JFK Jr. Sounds like some people knew that he was willing to press the limits and were uncomfortable with that.

It's one of the sad but true epitath of many, many pilots: "We knew something like this was liable to happen." "He took chances I wouldn't take." "He just wasn't as good a pilot as he seemed to think he was."

As of last night's late news JFK Jr was only one of thirteen private pilots who've crashed this weekend. Of course, as is always true it isn't news until it happens to somebody who's in the news.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), July 18, 1999.

-- FM

This is my real address. This is also the first time I have posted to this thread. The Y2K Pro imposter again...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), July 18, 1999.

Y2K Pro,

Are you saying you have an evil twin? A Polly Troll?

I'm confused here.

When you say "This is the first time you have posted to this thread," do you mean the post right before this one?

:)

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), July 18, 1999.

Those Kennedys were all pro-NWO. No loss as far as I'm concerned, well maybe the two babes? Just another plane crash.

-- rick (I'mset@home.house), July 19, 1999.