national penny shortage attributed to Y2K

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head line in Oregonian

Pennies: some wonder if people are hoarding coins because of Y2K

Gabriel Boehmerm, a Wells Fargo spokesman in Portland, said, some people in the banking industry wonder if fear of Y2K problems at the end of this year have fueled interest in hoarding coins, "But why pennies? he asked

Whats next? "There's talk the country could have a nickel shortage," said Boehmerm.

-- Guns, Grub & Gold (The End@the World.com), July 13, 1999

Answers

There has been a shortage of pennies since the 70's - hardly attributable to Y2K.

For more information go here:

http://www.pennies.org/

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), July 13, 1999.


It doesn't make any sense that people would be hoarding PENNIES for Y2K, but there DOES seem to be something increasing demand. Could it be that pennies are less expensive then their metals, and someone is hoarding them as a zinc & copper source?

PENNY DETAILS

The U.S. one-cent coin is 19 millimeters in diameter and weighs 2.5 grams.

The composition of the penny is 97.5% zinc and 2.5 % copper.

There have been 11 different designs featured on the penny.

The U.S. Mint produces over 13 billion pennies annually.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), July 13, 1999.


The banks and stores caused the problems themselves. In order to redeem that five gallon jar of change, you have to roll the coins yourself, lug them to the bank or store, wait while they weigh them (and look at you warily out of the corner of their eye), and put your name and address on each roll, lest you try to screw them out of two or three cents.

I'll turn mine in when they make it easier to do so.

-- ariZONEa (desert_sw@usa.com), July 13, 1999.


Utter nonsense. No part of any disccusion on this issue makes any logical sense no matter how anybody tries to "spin" any part of the issue: the banking side, hoarding side, metal content, pollie, troll, or doomer.

BUT - notice that the only reference to "pennies" came from the headline - the headline writer (as has happened MANY times in various y2k stories) jumped from the concern of "some bankers" about hoarding coins (only gold or silver would be collected (sounds better than "hoarded" - note the influence of the spin even here) by a few people who are very concerned about the economy and want to convert some assest into something tangible.

Okay - so we have "some bankers" discussing "coins" - and the headline writer converts it into a story featuring "pennies". And a writer here - taking the issue far too seriously than it's worth - tries to assume in his earnestness that there may be some real value in pennies.

No one seriously conserving (or converting) assets for next year's potential trouble would bother considering pennies.

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 13, 1999.


I think ariZONEa nailed it. I used to bring mine in once a year or so, and have them dump it in the counter/sorter machine, and get my cash. Now that they insist on having you wrap them, it really isn't worth my time.

Hmmm...maybe I can dupe the neighbors kids into wrapping them......

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 13, 1999.



Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.

-- Carol (glear@usa.net), July 13, 1999.

My bank won't take wrapped change. I gotta haul it up to the Kroger and dump it in a sorter... pretty soon out pops a check, payable to Kroger (so that I have to spend it or cash it there), with an 8.25% premium withheld (I get almost $.92 for every $1 dumped in). It's the worst ripoff! No wonder there's a shortage! I can't be alone in not wanting to pay to swap coin for bills!

-- yerfdog (yerfdog@qwestinternet.net), July 13, 1999.

Where do you live? Near Chicago we have a coin sorter in every bank branch, and they do it free of charge.

-- BiGG (supersite@acronet.net), July 13, 1999.

I guess that most people do as I do. It's not worth carrying those little chunks of metal around so I dump all of it into a jar and occasionally bring it to the bank for counting. I don't have to wrap it and there is no charge. I encourage everyone to do the same. Maybe we can force this country to abandon the waste of labor involved in counting out change to the nearest cent. I'm serious about this. We also would stop retailers from their annoying pricing policies like "999.99" or "19.99"

-- Joe O (ozarkjoe@yahoo.com), July 13, 1999.

Our banks in the Minneapolis area charge $20 hr for someone to run the coin counter with a minimum charge of 15 minutes ($5).

We just count it up and give it to the Church as part of our tithe.

Yours in COBOL... Dino!

-- (COBOL_Dinosaur@yahoo.com), July 13, 1999.



Another recent thread on this topic is:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0012UO

"Federal officials say some may be hoarding coins because of Y2K concerns"

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), July 13, 1999.


I like change.

I save mine in a jar on the dresser. Quarters in one jar and the rest in another. Once a month I take my son to the flea market or a sportscard store and we blow it. Just this year, with my loose change, I've aquired an autographed Pete Rose baseball, Chipper Jones photo, Fred Taylor photo, Mark Brunell photo, Freddy Couples photo and a Brooks Robinson ball and photo.

That change is worth more than ya think!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 13, 1999.


Ozark Joe, my bank has the same service, very simple, except that when I brought in two quart jars of pennies I had been using for bookends, the teller looked at me as if I'd arrived with dog dumplings in jars.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 13, 1999.

Screw them. Use your change to pay property taxes, parking tickets, etc... There was a guy where I used to live who paid thousands of dollars in property taxes in loose change in heavy duty cardboard boxes. They have to accept it, it is legal tender! Let them count it for you. They have to refund you any overage. My roomate in college paid a sixty odd dollar fine in unrolled pennies, they had to take it.

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), July 14, 1999.

That's the best advice I've seen on this forum yet! I just got a notice for license plate tags for my trailer...about 28 bucks. I believe I'll take my jar down to DMV and pay it in pennies and nickles!

-- Don (dwegner@cheyenneweb.com), July 14, 1999.


While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed in the "paying with pennies" suggestions, I've found that those that I wish to express it to are usually far away in state and national legislatures and executive office suites and the poor underling who is forced to count the coins is usually in sympathy with my original feelings.

OTOH, some of those "underlings" are real pricks and the experience of watching them count and roll pennies would be good to watch.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), July 14, 1999.


Gary North had an article about piggy banks a while back: ----------------------------------- Category: Banking Date: 1999-01-16 12:01:36 Subject: Piggy and the Banks: A Fairy Tale for 1999 Comment: This was forwarded to me. I think it's relevant. Exponential curves take a long time to turn upward, but when they do, things happen very fast. --------------------- The article ends with the following: --------------------- There are about 9 billion $1 bills in circulation and about 3 -5 $billion worth of coins. Because $1 bills are time consuming to count and coins are heavy to transport, most of the $1s and coins are in circulation and there are only small vault reserves. Any decrease in the circulation (caused by money landing in Piggy banks for the rainy Y2K day) must be balanced by an increase in the velocity (rate of changing hands) because there is a limited amount of reserves. Unofficially estimated, $1 bill reserves may be about 5% of $1 circulation and coin reserves about 2% of coin circulation. At some point, the lack of coin will be noticed. First by the Fed who gets data from all the Banks, then by Banks, who notice dwindling vault reserves, then by vendors (small businesses) who are told by the banks to "conserve" coin requirements, then by "customers" who are asked if they have the change. It is difficult to say at what point it would begin to be a problem. Most likely, if 50% of $1s and coins were in Piggy Banks this would be a serious problem.

With 250 million Americans, this translates to about $35 in $1 bills and about $20 in coins. This means that there is really only about $50 per person in the smallest form of currency. But without the ability to make change easily, the value of all the larger bills is put into question. At least a question of convenience. This also means that once 10% of the public had $100 in a Piggy the system of small change might be in trouble. The moral of this story is that coin saving (which is certainly going on all the time and is definitely increasing as people get ready for Y2K) will most likely lock up the small change system long before it gets to the "mainstream".

How hard is it for a simple person to get $100 in a Piggy? Not hard at all. Most people can afford it if they try. It doesn't take a big cash advance from a credit card to finance it. Right now it is possible to walk into your bank and get a box of quarters valued at $500 and get $500 in $1 bills at the same time. There are no reporting requirements on this type of transaction. Millions of small businesses do this in smaller scale each week. If only 1% of people did this, the system of small change would lock up. The day Alan Greenspan or President Clinton speak the word "coin shortage" is the day the small change system will lock up. The reason for this is because almost all $1 bills and coins are in the hands of the people. All of the people all of the time. There is little that banks can do to "ration" the supply. The impulse to hold back can spread as quickly as the common flu.

This problem could happen in any country. It happens commonly in smaller economies which have currency problems. People find their way. But if it were to happen in America it would be very big news and it would immediately raise the level of y2k awareness worldwide. Such an immediate awareness around a negative event which threatened the banking system could take a very heavy toll on the world markets. -------------------------- This is one of those articles which supports the accusation that he is deliberately trying to bring things down.

-- Shekels From Heaven (alpha@ret.ta), July 14, 1999.


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