After much discussion, some generally on the forum and some offline, the TB2K "mod squad" has decided to split the current TB2K forum into two forums ---

... One for Y2K preps (new) and ....

... This one that we all know and love-hate-love.

It turns out that I will be the moderator of the prep forum, with help from Chuck Rienzo.

While more details will be forthcoming, here is the likely drill so far:

The Prep forum will also be a Greenspun forum. Like TB2K, a wide range of categories for organizing postings will be available. Both forums will link to each other.

In general, we will encourage folks to stop posting prep-style threads here and post them instead to the new forum. Obviously, no one will be forced. Where possible, we will copy-paste (not cut) new prep threads that end up here anyway to the Prep forum. We will not move older prep threads from here. It isn't worth the time or energy.

By keeping prep threads in one place (and linking to Brian's archives), we feel that newbie GIs will receive the support they need over the coming months, including post-rollover (when the number of GIs is likely to approach 100%).

The Prep forum will be more tightly managed than this one. While trolling can't be completely eliminated, I will do my best to delete trollish threads or posts. The decisions of the judges (me and/or Chuck) will be final. There will be no threads opened on the prep forum to debate those decisions. I don't mean to sound harsh, that's just how it is going to be. Time is too short for other stuff when it comes to preparing. If you want to flame me on this thread, go ahead, but I'm not going to respond. How I was selected for this role is also not up for discussion.

While we are poised to start entering categories preparatory to launching it in a week or two, I would greatly appreciate your suggestions on that and suggestions in general about such a forum.

In the end, your cooperation and participation on BOTH forums will determine what lives/dies online.

I have NO PERSONAL STAKE at all in a prep forum beyond, obviously, my own appreciation for everything I have learned from all of you and my willingness to pitch in and be a bit of a help to all of us online. If it doesn't draw our mutual commitment, we'll drop it at some point.

I do have a personal opinion that post Y2K (which I believe will be 2010, but hope will be Feb, 2000), some of us will want to continue developing a self-reliant family and community life. It may turn out that "preps" become a way of life for many of us, not just a reaction to Y2K concerns. Threats to our infrastructure long-term from cyber terrorism are very real. We'll see.

See you shortly on the new forum as well as here, of course.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), July 01, 1999

Answers

Good, Big Dog. I agree and if I can help please let me know. Thanks!

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), July 01, 1999.

Thanks BigDog and Chuck. I think this will be valuable to all of us, not just the newbies. The categories that Brian established (and all of his hard work) are a great start. I hope to be able to contribute to both forums as time permits. Preps have already become a way of life for some of us, and this will continue regardless of Y2K.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@exxon.sprint.com), July 01, 1999.

Well Big Dog, you have my vote and complete confidence to moderate the forum as you see fit. You have earned your stripes and have set an example for many of us to follow.

I have had a great experience participating in a forum that demands respect of all posters for one another. It is a gold forum, usagold.com, that discusses gold in relation to world finance. The particpants are mature, respectful, and all have a desire to raise understanding in a civil manner. If a disrespectful genius tries to contribute and put another person down he is shown the back door. We loose his genius but retain civility and respect for one another.

-- tomcat (tomcat@cat.com), July 01, 1999.

BD and Chuck

Sounds like a worthy project. Give me an E if I can help eh!

And can you put a category down for tools?? It is the one category I would like to have put on mine.

Good luck!

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 01, 1999.

I think that's a fine approach, BigDog.

Good luck, and let me know if there's anything I can do to pitch in, other than participating.

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), July 01, 1999.

Bravo! And about time. If there is anyway I can help, email me.

-- Lobo (atthelair@yahoo.com), July 02, 1999.

I suggested that a week or so ago. And I promised that I would not post to that prep only forum. I will keep my promise. Any posts there with my signature will either be trolls or crossposted by someone else.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), July 02, 1999.

Great Job! The only request I have is please be very clear how to get to either forum, will access be from one main page or just special URL's that we need to use. I feel like I could miss out unless I know EXACTLY how to get there. Thanks, Sammie ;-)

-- Sammie Davis (sammie0@hotmail.com), July 02, 1999.

Thanks BD and Chuck!

Some categories regarding purchases that I think would be beneficial would be:

1) Items that are cheap and you can't have too many of and you ought to buy every time you go shopping.

2) Items that are expensive so you ought to start saving now for them if you haven't already done so.

3) Items that are likely to become unavailable before December 31, as more and more people begin to prepare.

4) Items that vary in quality and price. I have found the discussions regarding the merits (or lack thereof) of inexpensive guns to be very helpful.

5) Items which will be prized because of their multi-purpose utility.

6) Finally, the old standby, items which will have good barter value. For example, Chuck will undoubtedly give me all of his junk silver coins in exchange for a Cleveland Browns replica jersey which he failed to remember to buy!!!!

-- GA Russell (ga.russell@usa.net), July 02, 1999.

Thanks Big Dog! From a newbie without much time left to horse around! Carolyn

-- Carolyn Grace (grace17@pacbell.net), July 02, 1999.

This is a great move forward. I hope folks who haven't considered posting their preparation questions and suggestions in such a "diverse" environment will feel more comfortable to do so.

Becoming more self-relient indeed reaches far beyond y2k. At the very least, we are sure to face some stormy economic weather soon.

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), July 02, 1999.

Big Dog,Chuck,bravo,bravo,boatloads of kudos and a mighty heapin'helpin' of THANKS.

-- Tony C. (yo7@bellsouth.net), July 02, 1999.

As BD pointed out, this new forum will be dedicated to PREPARATIONS and, well, period. This means the "How?" questions. Not the "Why?' nor the "Wherefore?" questions. Those should remain the domain of this forum. And any posted on the Prep forum will find themselves over here fairly quickly.

HAving said this, there is an area that is quite grey, and might be both on and off topic in the prep forum. this is the "How MUCH?" question. To simplify the answer to this, let's try to observe the following conventions:

the answers should address "How MUCH?" using the following common durations:

2 weeks

4 weeks (1 month)

8 weeks (2 months)

3 months

6 months

12 months

greater than 1 year.

As the "How long?" question might be either on or off topic, let us reserve that question to the domain of the TB2K Classic Forum (THIS one).

If you feel the timeframes need to be adjusted, and remember we're trying to cover the spectrum, let us know, here, on this thread, or, well, what the heck, my e-mail works.

Chuck, a night driver and now a night semi-moderator (would that be a demi-monde(rator)?)

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), July 02, 1999.

Good call, gang. The current site can serve as a lightning rod for all the trolling psychoidiots. ("it's a dirty job but... yada yada").

Keep 'em occupied. Give them a good run for their money. Have some fun monkeying with them while you're at it. It's a service I (and probably others) will appreciate, since we're getting down to the wire here and many of us need to keep focused on prep (fun though good bloodlettings can be).

Speaking of wires, obviously some of your recent resident psychos have a few loose ones. Hope nobody gets electrocuted.

IPQ

-- IPQ (IdProQuo@aol.com), July 02, 1999.

Sounds good BD- with you and chuck running it, will /should do well. I haven't been able to get up and running to do those Chat sessions, so this sounds great. I hope that the threads can stay active longer this way- without extraneous junk and fighting going on. I think that threads need to be active for a good week or more to allow time for input and info procurement, etc.It's been frustrating to see a good thread get archived too soon to make room for polly/troll stuff.

-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.net), July 02, 1999.

I am with Davis on this one. I suggest you label the forum clearly. Perhaps like this:

"This is a Y2K preparation forum. The participants have concluded Y2K will have a significant impact on basic services throughout the world. Our goal is to help people prepare for this disruption... and survive.

There are other fora available to discuss the potential impact of Y2K. [Provide links.] If you want to talk or learn about what might happen with Y2K, please visit these sites.

If you are convinced Y2K will cause serious problems and want to prepare, you have found the right place. With less than six months left we must maintain focus on the subject. All off-topic posts will be deleted by the moderators."

I think a millennium clock might be a nice touch.

Now, someone will probably weigh in and say that I am "advocating" censorship. No. If you want a "members only" forum and plan to censor off topic posts, announce it up front. Raise the drawbridge on Y2K debate and take serious problems "as read." In short, I think a forum for people who have made up their minds about Y2K is OK.

Best of luck with the new forum.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), July 02, 1999.

You both have my admiration for taking on such hard work and I wish you the greatest of good luck. The new preparations forum has been and is sorely needed, not just for Y2K but for virtually any disaster. Would it be possible to include in the "About" section words to that effect?

Hurry and get the new forum off the ground. I've got a new idea already. . .

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 02, 1999.

thanx chuck and BD! very much looking forward to it. dittos on the tool category.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), July 02, 1999.

Chuck and BigDog, This is exactly what is needed at this time. Thanks for all your efforts on behalf of this forum and the new ones about to be created.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 02, 1999.

BRAVO! BRAVO! Yes! Yes! Yes!

Thank You ! For everybody -

Very good call.

You have my hearty agreement and support!

-- Living (inthe@real.world), July 02, 1999.

FINALLY!! Now we can stop wasting time with all this idiocy and get down to brass tacks! Thank you for all your time/work. Let me know if I can help in any way.

-- judy (wednesdayschild@hotmail.com), July 02, 1999.

All right BigDog and Chuck... Im there!

waggin tail vigorously,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 02, 1999.

Good to see you make the announcement BigDog & Chuck!

Timely.

Got your note. If you can get to the category list tomorrow, can set them up there this weekend, then it will be ready to roll any time you're ready. We'll stick a link up in the ABOUT section here, where Brian's Prep Archive link can currently be found.

Thanks again for taking this one on!

Diane (a.k.a. Sysop #1)

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 02, 1999.

Fantastic news B.D. Focusing on preperation issues seems a logical split of the discussion area.

-- Jim Edmondson (jimed@iglobal.net), July 02, 1999.

Excellent solution and very much needed. Too many new threads to keep up with these days. Too many of us at different stages of preps. This will satisfy all and direct focus where each of us feel the focus should be as this story unfolds. Way to go and THANKS for the effort and time devoted!! (not to mention a 'safe refuge' to retreat to from time to time, while still remaining within the subject)

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 02, 1999.

And kudos also to Phil Greenspun for making this possible! Finally, a forum I'll feel unreservedly comfortable sending newbies and almost-GIs.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), July 02, 1999.

Thank you thank you! Be sure to give us the url!

-- Mommacares (harringtondesignX@earthlink.net), July 02, 1999.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU (kissee kissee)

-- jeanne (jeanne@hurry.now), July 02, 1999.

It's a wonderful idea. And I noticed that the agreement is unanimous.

DJ

-- DJ (reality@check.com), July 02, 1999.

Very kool. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), July 02, 1999.

While I heartily applaud the new forum, I expect it to be overrun by trolls as well. Your eternal vigilance will be put to the test. Best of luck.

-- regular (zzz@z.z), July 02, 1999.

Way Cool! How about a category on issues specific to 1) being in the country, 2) being in the 'burbs, and 3) being in the city? Way to go Big Dog! Will look forward to the new look.

-- Libby Alexander (libbyalexander@aol.com), July 02, 1999.

A great big THANK YOU from the little guy in the front row seat.

I think that it is an excellent addition to this forum.

Just get a size 54 delete button ready, because the trolls will be out in force for the first few weeks at least.

Thanks again guys.

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (buffgun@hotmail.com), July 02, 1999.

Good thinking! Good idea!

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 02, 1999.

wonderful - excellent - peachy.

here's some topics I would suggest:

recipes - using that food storage to your advantage

live animal care

pest control

recipes

recipes

canning

drying

recipes

etc, etc, etc

-- justme (finally@home.com), July 02, 1999.

Would you be so kind as to post a link to the new forum?

Thanks,

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), July 03, 1999.

"If you want to flame me on this thread, go ahead, but I'm not going to respond."

nEin????? NIeN????? eVEn iF DIetER cAllS You a bIG slOPPy hOT loVE monKEy?????

hOW abOUt iF DIetER caLLs yOU a biG SLoPPy Hot loVe moNKEy wHO SLiceS?????

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), July 03, 1999.

THIS IS THE ANSWER!!!!!

I would also hope that some of the heavyweights in prepping, who unfortunately appear to have left after the current forum "lost it" some weeks (months?) ago, might be enticed back to the new PREP-ONLY forum. Such as bardou, for instance.

Maybe an e-mail message from the new PREP-ONLY moderator to those departed heavyweights, inviting them to participate, would be in order?....

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), July 03, 1999.

Obviously, you won't let Decker write the intro for us, such as when he suggests: "The participants have concluded Y2K *will* have a significant impact...", attempting to marginalize, isolate, and subject us to ridicule. "May have" is correct.

There will certainly be a lot of interchange between the two fora. We should welcome and use it. I wonder if there should be a category titled something like "Polly Preps." It would contain the (cut and pasted, probably) "endorsements" of prepping by our most skeptical pollies like Decker's self-sufficient rural set-up and Flint's predict-3-prep-for-8 philosophy. Full disclosure, eh?

I've been impressed with how Rick Cowles steers the electric forum to stay on-topic and useful.

Be ruthless with the trolls. You know what they'll try to do, as we've had tidbits on the original (what was it -- lint collectors or something?). It's PsyWar for them. They'll try to stuff us, too. Every article on goat-milking ever written should not be shoved under our noses, but perhaps some general (online?) works on rural self- sufficiency could allow us to prune the threads.

Don't be afraid to reduce the number of threads by cut-and-pasting the post of one that belongs under another similar thread and deleting it. We need QUALITY here, not quantity.

The forum should function as much as possible like a FAQ in some departments, updated by qualified posters. Eliminate repetitions.

And now, what are we going to do about our favorite amusements -- a special category for Dieter to reveal his top 10 prep outbursts! Another category for al's ramblings ("Precariously Punctuated Preparations"?) when they're at all appropriate to the forum? "Corrine's Coquettish Counsels" on how to snag a confused male apres y-2-k and make him your generator-repair slave?

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), July 03, 1999.

jor-el...

That's funny!

Just imagining "a special category for Dieter to reveal his top 10 prep outbursts!" has me rolling on the floor!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

You go guys!!! This is great!

-- Moore Dinty moore (not@thistime.com), July 03, 1999.

Finally! May sanity prevail. Thanks BD & Chuck.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), July 03, 1999.

I am so glad to see this approach. Sorely needed!!

As someone who three months ago re-located from a city to the country, and has pretty much been in the thick of a lot of Y2K prep activities very recently, I have many times been tempted to write up a thread on one aspect or other. But they just fall right of the radar screen so frequently due to all the non-prep threads (to put it nicely).

Additionally, it seemed that many of Stan Farayna's otherwise good preparation request threads seemed to somehow be aimed to get approval from "Mr. Decker", of all people. Look, the very first post that I ever read from that guy (something like how to trick Y2K prepared people to leave their houses so you can shoot to wound them, then wait while their family members come to their aid, so you can shoot to kill all of them) pretty much indicated that he was not exactly on what I would consider to be in the right "frame of mind" for what we were trying to accomplish on this forum. (Or any right "frame of mind" for that matter!) The Mr. Decker "squeaky wheel" has had more than its share of grease, yet still whines for more. With time so short, its time to move on to exclusive prepping!

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), July 03, 1999.

Great! I have most of my preps done, but am anxious to be able to see what I may be forgetting about.

I am go glad that you guys are going to do a preps only forum. Much easier to send friends and family to. A newbie to any forum, would be lost here shortly.

Kudos!

-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), July 05, 1999.

Suggested threads.

How to make bullets from Spam cans

Small Dog, Small Meal, Not necessarily. Call EY for 50lbs of Small Dog Helper

Fattening up Aunt Edna

When to shoot just to injure

How to convince the kids to eat Rover

How to convince the kids to eat Aunt Edna

How to stop the kids from eating wood

How to stop Squire from eating everything

When shooting to injure is a knee better than a shoulder

Canning farts

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@worldnet.att.net), July 05, 1999.

I've been feeling pretty well under control since adopting the following categories for my own preparations:

financial, water, medicines, pantry, mail order food, seeds, gardening, husbandry, land, food storage, cooking, minihunt kit, hunting, security, minifire kit, firestarter kit, fuel, safety, car kits, mini first aid, first aid kit, hospital in a box, sanitation, shelter, tools, clothing, bedding, light, transportation, survival bags, bugout bags, communication, morale, storage, home improvement I put things approximately in order of their importance and/or urgency. Within each category are low cost, moderate cost and high cost solutions. One can start small by covering each category lightly, and gradually beef up.

-- Dancr (minddancr@aol.com), July 05, 1999.

Yabba dabba doo!

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), July 05, 1999.