Does anyone have a link to the supposed CIA report on possible death counts USA?Worldwide from a y2k disaster?

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Thanks,

Andy

It was posted here some months back but I can't find it.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 26, 1999

Answers

You mean the one supposedly predicting millions or billions of deaths? That CIA report sounds apocryphal. Or at least I hope it is--I prefer apocryphal to apocalyptic. Seriously, I looked at some CIA and NIC documents last year, but never saw any "death count" projections. I could have missed them, of course. Joe Boivin of the Global Millennial Foundation in Canada has made some rather unsettling projections. It seems rather impossible to evaluate such things reliably.

Do you know anything about International Monitoring, a London-based consulting group? They've been publishing some interesting projections lately, based on their Y2K "storm ratings" of industries and agencies in 140 countries. Examples: they project international air travel delays of up to 7 days (bring that sleeping bag), delays of up to 15 days in the importation of needed technological parts into the U.S., and delays up to 23 days in oil shipments from some of the world's major oil exporters (Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Nigeria, etc.).

-- Don Florence (dflorence@zianet.com), June 26, 1999.


Thanks Don,

the report allegedly talked of a 3/4 cull in the world's population i.e. down from 6 billion to 1.5 billion - this fits in rather nicely with infomagic's carrying capacity scenario of a 4 billion death count. If we go a 9+ then i fully expect these sort of figures - the population as it exists now is totally dependent on the "system" to feed them and give them jobs in the great division of labour. that's how society "works." With the infastructure wiped out, IF it happens, and it really boils down to if the power grid stays up, the consequences will be catastrophic for most of us.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 27, 1999.


Andy, we remember that CIA report. It was discussed on the Forum at the time, last September/October/November in more than one thread. The person quoted in the report was a woman. Did she have to retract her statements? It was around the time ppl were posting the CIA's recommendations for their own employees. We thought the numbers were ridiculous -- now we're not so sure. Too much pent-up rage, tension, resentment, while times are "good" -- doesn't give much confidence in brotherly love.

We keep looking for a surge of spiritual hope, joy, comradery, but the opposite is accelerating.

Still, miracles *can* occur. Just can't bank on it.

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 27, 1999.


Actually, Leksa 'n Ashton, you "can" bank on it. Miracles, that is.

Enough people have to want them.

And boy... it sure is looking like we're gonna need 'em!

BTW, I sort'a remember that article too. Kevin might know.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 27, 1999.


OK, there's a website for International Monitoring, if anyone is interested: www.intl-monitoring.com

A few more thoughts re "death counts": Boivin at one time projected one billion deaths globally from Y2K; since he's still a straight "10" on the ole 1-10 scale, I imagine his projection is still the same. I've seen other estimates in the 10 million to 300 million range. I personally think all these estimates are way, way too high, but then I don't know the infrastructure situation in many countries, or the odds of serious Y2K problems leading to civil unrest, wars, etc. Boivin's argument seems to be that a raging global depression would cut off international aid to the billion or so people who live at the very margin of existence, largely dependent upon outside assistance. Yardeni pegs the odds of a Y2K-induced global depression at only 5%, I might add. But given that 35% of the world is already in a recession or worse, and that the world economy is now largely dependent upon the U.S. economy, which in turn is dependent upon a tremendously overvalued stock market (a situation the World Bank calls "unhealthy"), serious Y2K problems here and abroad obviously could trigger some nasty economic consequences. Let's hope not.

-- Don Florence (dflorence@zianet.com), June 27, 1999.



I should have noted that Boivin was formerly Y2K project manager at the Imperial Bank, Canada's second largest bank.

-- Don Florence (dflorence@zianet.com), June 27, 1999.

And Boivin is providing a valuable service, he bailed out of Corp/Canada in order NOT to spin the banking shill's party line... my hat's off to him...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 27, 1999.

Ashton and Leska brought up the CIA report on a different recent thread. When someone asked about a link to it, they just danced around it. Apparently, they are still dancing. How about a link?

-- larryb (lj@slave.com), June 27, 1999.

[Boivin's argument seems to be that a raging global depression would cut off international aid to the billion or so people who live at the very margin of existence, largely dependent upon outside assistance.]

In many (not all) cases, those people are in that predicament because their prime agricultural land is being used to produce cash crops for export (to pay back usurious loans from the IMF). If that land can be used to produce food for local consumption, they may not be as bad off as some who have come to rely on those exports.

Perspective perspective perspective.

Hallyx

"Only two things threaten our existence: A breakdown of society as we know it; The continuation of society as we know it." --- Jan Blum

-- Hallyx (Hallyx@aol.com), June 27, 1999.


Hallyx - good points. But of course they won't have enough food stored to last them until they can plant and harvest food crops once again.

Add to that scenario Monsanto et. al. playing god with the Terminator Gene and Traitor gene seeds. Often these marginally surviving folks use food aid grain to plant their fields, but if they do that with terminator or traitor seeds... no crops, no sustainability. For more info:

The Terminator Technology Index



-- Linda (
lwmb@psln.com), June 27, 1999.



Just as a matter of interest while the Irish were dying of starvation, boatloads of potatoes were leaving Cork for England. Man's inhumanity to man. I have no reason to believe that anything has changed. Eyes wide shut.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 27, 1999.

According to Investor's Business Daily, 14 October, 1997:

The 20th century has been the bloodiest ever. Some 42 million people have been killed in wars, and 170 million or so have been killed by their own governments. But that may be changing, and economists explain why.

-- Not Again! (Seenit@ww2.com), June 27, 1999.


Glad to see someone besides Gilda and me are alert to the "Frankenfood" scandal. I've been following it for years. Have the RAFI site bookmarked already, thanks.

Would you like to see the "Science" magazine issue (Sept/Oct 1998) that was pulled under threat of lawsuit by Monsanto? Drop me a line.

Not Again says, "The 20th century has been the bloodiest ever.... But that may be changing, and economists explain why." I'd be interested in knowing why, sir.

Hallyx

"Shamed, dishonored, wading in blood and dripping with filth, thus capitalist society stands. Not as we usually see it, playing the roles of peace and righteousness, of order, of philosophy, of ethics--as a roaring beast, as an orgy of anarchy, as a pestilential breath, devastating culture and humanity--so it appears in all its hideous nakedness."---Rosa Luxemburg

(Take THAT, Kenboy)

-- Hallyx (Hallyx@aol.com), June 27, 1999.


Another reading comprehension challenged person. *sigh* The thread is last Fall, don't remember the name or category, and the archives won't load completely anymore on our computer. Gotta get more RAM. This is a repeat.

Time Will Tell

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 27, 1999.


I guess, as new people enter the forum and are unable to refer to threads from last fall, that certain threads and ideas will be repeated.

That was unusually snippy of you, Leska. Is everything alright up there in Cascadia? Sending warm, dry SoCal vibes your way.

Hallyx

"You say you have problems as great as my own, I'm forced to admit this is true... But consider that mine realy happen to *me* While yours merely happen to you." --- (seeking attribution)

-- (Hallyx@aol.com), June 27, 1999.



Hi Hallyx, what we meant by repeat was the info in that post was clearly brought out in the other thread, which the flamer conveniently did not acknowledge.

We're frustrated because we've made a very conscientious habit of providing links and now the archive categories will not load completely. We can do a "find" while the loading ball spins, which works for a couple months of threads, but then "loading failure" or the whole thing crashes and we have to restart.

There is so much good info in those archives, it's a shame to not be able to access, especially when ppl have specific questions and we know the answer is in there. A Search Engine would save this Forum. The repetition is a recipe for burn-out.

We're not usually snippy but ... we see the Forum losing its clarity and attraction ... getting too big to bring pertinent info back up. Lots of garbage globbing up the archives now. Always disgusted to see a good thing ruined when it could so easily have been avoided. Like Y2K.

xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 27, 1999.


Dear Ashton and Leska,

I see your point and commiserate. Thanks for the explanation. I'm really quite haphazard and slipshod in my web research (research, Hah). Really more like surfing to me; paddle out for the next one. It takes a lot of discipline, technique and character to organise articles the way Dianne, Linkmeister, Kevin and you guys do, as well as others here, which makes this board so valuable. You have my heartfelt admiration.

I would also like to apologise for my off-handed remark, which was even less acceptable as it was made in public.

Hallyx

"If you don't learn anything from your mistakes, what's the sense in making them?"

-- (Hallyx@aol.com), June 27, 1999.


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