From the Jeff Rense show at www.sightings.com

Jeff Rense ~ Okay. We are back. Let's go back up to Jim in Seattle listening in on KRKO. Go ahead. One more question, Jim, if you like.

Caller - Thank you. David, we've just got a few minutes here and maybe take time after the break here at 8:00 and go on with this question, I hope, if you talk about it. I've heard you speak about the Federal Reserve (David: Yes.) in the United States and the unique way that it mystifies and hoodwinks the American public but escpecially when you talk about in your unique way the national debt or the budget debate as being nothing more than fresh air. And if you could elaborate on that at great length I think the people listening would benefit.

Jeff Rense ~ You know, why don't we do this. Let's do that money story. It's a lengthy story as Jim said. We're gonna start on it now, but you've got some great lines, David, and that's really the mechanism by which this whole thing is held together and manipulated. It's money and the fact that every individual needs it.

David Icke ~ Yeah. I tell ya, and we go back to what we were talking about teachers earlier. I spoke in Vancouver earlier this year and when I was talking about this I noticed one guy got up and left at the back of the theatre. And after I was finished the guy who put up the whole meeting, he said, "You upset a friend of mine." I said, "Really? In what way?" He said, "When you were talking about the money, and how money didn't exist, and what a great con it was, and that we're actually paying interest on fresh air, he walked out because he said it doesn't work like that." And I said, "How does it work?" And he couldn't really tell me. He says, "But I'll tell you what that guy does for a living. He's an economist (DDecker??? nah, can't be...). He's advising people on the economy and on money etcetera in Vancouver everyday."

And he doesn't know how money's created. We're told first of all that governments print money. That's the thing we're led to believe. They don't. Money's created in a very simple way. It's by private banks owned by the same people issuing non existent money called credit. And so you go to a bank and they'll give you a loan, say a hundred grand, but all they do at that point is not print any paper or mint any coins or move any precious metals a single inch. They just type into your account $100,000. That's all they do. So from that moment on you're paying interest on $100,000 that's just figures on a screen. And what we've actually done is give complete control over the creation of money to private banks, which as I show and as others have shown, are actually under control by the same people.

Now if you look, what is the difference between a boom and a bust, it's one thing. During a boom there's abundance, jobs, etc. That's when there's enough units in circulation to allow economic activity to take place that allows that to happen. When we have a bust or depression, the only difference between that and a boom is the number of units of exchange in circulation is far less therefore there's not enough money to go around to exchange for goods and services and create that economic activity. The people who decide how many units of exchange are in circulation or not, in other words whether we have a boom or a bust, are those banks who decide if they're going to let lots of loans go at low interest or not many loans at high interest. And, of course, the Federal Reserve, this European owned fascist organization, set interest rates in this country. So basically, you have a boom. You get people in debt and all that stuff. And then you have a bust and you reap all the wealth of all the bankruptcies and what have you. The real wealth. Land. Buildings. Businesses. And you get that in exchange for fresh air.

Jeff Rense ~ And then you set it up and start all over again. When we continue David Icke will talk about how banks can loan money. And you say banks can't loan more money than they have on deposit, can they? Well, we're going to talk about fractional banking and all of that as we continue here at Sightings on the Radio here tonight with England's David Icke. And we'll be back after the news.

Jeff Rense ~ And we are back, talking with England's David Icke whose book "...And the Truth Shall Set You Free" is considered to be a very dangerous book by some people. We were talking about banking and the money game and it is the biggest and probably oldest game there is. When you go into a bank and ask for a loan and you qualify, whatever qualify means anymore, you're given a certain amount of money. But are you? Are you given anything? No. Simply digits are changed in your bank account so to speak or a check is cut to you. Again all numbers. What are the rules, the alleged rules, David, that a bank has to follow in order to make loans to the public about money on deposit and assets and so forth?

David Icke ~ Well, there is virtually none now. I mean, as a rule of thumb, you could say that they have to have ten percent of what they loan but in truth they often need far less than that. We go back to this whole scenario. The Knights Templar and the 1200-1300's, they started loaning people money that didn't exist and then charging interest on it. Going back that far. You can go back to Babylon and the ancient world and find the same thing.

And it's always been used as a form of control because if you can get people in debt, you have got them under control. You can have companies all over the world, and small businesses particularly, having to pay back interest on money that doesn't exist, loans to the bank to keep the businesses going then you are for a start inflating the price of every single product that is sold because everyone in the production process of that product, from making it, to transporting it, to marketing it, to selling it, is adding extra to their cost to service interest on money that doesn't exist which they borrowed. So that combination of people in debt and higher prices than necessary means you're pressuring people to serve your system to earn the money to pay these prices you're inflating and this debt that you're creating.

And this can be seen in America and all over the world at the government level where fantastic amounts of taxpayers' money every year is going straight into the coffers of the Federal Reserve banks to pay back interest on fresh air. People go hungry and people go homeless. I mean, this is such a con it's unbelievable. It's possible because America, like Britain, is a one party state. If you at whether the Republicans or whether the Democrats are in, or the Labor or Conservative in Britain, the same agenda keeps unfolding. And this agenda is for the global centralization of power at a very, very complete level. And fundamental to that is control of money because that controls peoples' ability to purchase, ability to live their lives.

So if you go back to the time of William of Orange in Britain who was brought over to be king of England by a secret society among others called the Orange Order from Holland, when it's the Orange Order who is very much involved in the conflict, and what have you, in northern Ireland to this day. And what William of Orange was brought over to do was to create the Bank of England. And he signed a charter. I think it was in 1964. And this banking system started to motor. And the Federal Reserve, of course, as it has been well documented, was actually created by European bankers not least the House of Rothschild.

And what governments can do because they're the government is print its own money interest free and put it into circulation interest free so that money takes on its positive aspect which is as a unit of exchange for exchanging contributions to society. What happens, however, because the people that are controlling the politicians own the banks. Governments borrow money from private banking cartels and pay interest on it.

'All this interest....this national debt.' Excuse me? It's fresh air. It doesn't exist. 'We must reduce the deficit.' There is no deficit. It's fresh air. It's a complete con. And what has happened, of course -- you just look at the Presidents of the United States as an example -- you need kookooland amounts of money to run for President. Who provides that money? The people that run the banking and business communtiy are the same people and you get paid by the piper. You dance to his tune when you're in office so this legislation has gone on being passed over the few centuries which allows banks to lend what they don't have. Very simple example...

Jeff Rense ~ How do you phrase it, David, "Never did.." You've got a great line. The money line. "Never did exist. Doesn't now."

David Icke ~ Oh yeah. We are up to our necks in debt on money that has never, does not, and will never exist. And if anyone doesn't believe that a few people can't control the world, they should just look at the power we have given these bankers over the control of our lives. We're in a situation where the politicians have passed legislation that allows banks to lend fresh air, money they don't have and get rewarded for it and if you look at the way it's unfolded over the years. It means because of this turkey shoot idea whereby you create a boom, you get people into debt, you get governments into debt, you get individuals and businesses into debt.

And people say, "Oh, it's boom time. Well, I'll have a bigger car, bigger house. We'll have two hoildays this year cause things are going well. I haven't got the money, but things are going well. I'll be able to service the debt so we'll just have a loan." And then businesses say, "There's all this kind of economic activity. People want to buy our products. There's lots of money in circulation. We'll borrow more from the bank to get better machinery and then we'll increase production." And then at that point the people who put the money into circulation, take it out again. They stop making as many loans. They make sure interest rates go up and the Federal Reserve, I repeat, has complete control of that. And basically units of exchange are taken out of circulation. People haven't got the same amount of money to spend. Economic activity falls. The demand for products falls. But those loans which have been taken out during the boom time still have to be serviced and not only that the interest rates you're paying on them now are higher. So people go bankrupt. People lose their money. People lose their businesses. And the banks get all that wealth that does exist.

This boom-bust con which the economists on the big CNN say, "This is just this point on the economic cycle. It's very natural." It's complete manipulation. It means the real wealth of the world has been sucked to the top of the pyramid which is why the real wealth of the world is owned by so few people. And so we're in a situation now where we've given complete control over whether we have a boom or a bust to a handful of people who run the global banking system and the global political system and the transnational corporations.

And I just say to people, "If you think this is all nonsense and actually money does exist and this is all not happening, then you try en masse tomorrow morning taking out of the bank what you theoretically have on deposit. If everyone in the world tried to take out tomorrow the money they theoretically have on deposit in the banks they'd be slamming the doors at half past nine because they have not got it. And yet that's the debt that we're up to our neck in. And that's what the third world debt is. The third world debt which is crucifying environmentally and in human terms what we call the third world is debt on money that has never, does not, and will never exist.

Jeff Rense ~ That may be the most insidious of all the debt structures, what is happening to the third world. I know people who live in Brazil and are Brazilian tell me that Brazil is not owned by Brazilians anymore, it's owned by the transnational corporations.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 19, 1999

Answers

As more people understand the fact that this is the Babylonian System which was set up in order to control people and the economy the more it will be said..."You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Incrimentally you know.

"You can go back to Babylon and the ancient world and find the same thing."

The System began in Babylon and it is coming to an end. Hopefully sooner than latter. I think it is significant that the US continues to attack Babylon, (Iraq).

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), June 19, 1999.

Andy,

When you purchased (I presume, rather than received as gifts) your David Icke books, how did you pay for them? Gold? Silver? Barter? Fresh air? Did Mr. Icke or the bookstore accept "fresh air" as payment? Please give details.

When your employer pays your salary, is it in gold, silver, "fresh air", or some other commodity? Please specify.

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 19, 1999.

I agree with the basic premise of the article except that money is not "fresh air". A better description is "money is debt". The money that banks create is a promise to pay. It is backed by nothing. Prior to the Nixon Administration, money was backed by gold. The amount of cash in the bank to back the money loaned is less than 2 per cent of the money on deposit in the bank. When will the runs begin? What will trigger them? The rich run up the stock market, get out at the top, and Joe Six Pack buys the bargains on a dip with the encouragement of his stock broker who has a vested interest not to pop the bubble. Y2k will pop the bubble. The question is when?

-- Tom (Tom@notstupid.gom), June 19, 1999.

No Spam, I think you are missing the main point. Money is necessary in order to have a working economy. However, it does not have to come from private bankers at immense cost to the public. The government can print it's own money, debt free, as Lincoln and Kennedy tried to implement, and as a number of our early presidents fought so furiously to uphold. We have been sold down the river.

http://www.moneymaker.com/money/frbsol1a.htm

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), June 19, 1999.

OR,

Before you (and Andy, for that matter) condescendingly opine that someone is missing a point, you ought to doublecheck whether you know which point is being missed, if any. E.g., are you sure you're familiar with all the points? How did you decide which was/were the poster's aim(s)?

Among the more-than-one points of my posting is that Andy has demonstrated himself to be an intellectual coward when asked questions whose answers could lead to exposure of the logical flaws in his arguments. He usually twists and turns and evades and avoids -- anything but answering the question(s) straight-up. I point this out occasionally so that new forum readers will be alerted to Andy's methods.

>Money is necessary in order to have a working economy.

That is another of the points of my posting. Did you think I missed it? I'm asking Andy about the medium of exchange he's used in a couple of types of transaction.

>However, it does not have to come from private bankers at immense cost to the public.

So? I know that. Do you see anything I've posted that says that gold could _not_ be a medium of exchange? The answer will be "no", because I've never contended that.

So what did I miss? And if you still think I missed something, did you arrive at that conclusion on the mere basis of a short posting in which I never claimed or pretended to address the whole of the subject of money?

Watch to see whether Andy ever answers the questions I asked without trying some rhetorical trick to evade doing so straightforwardly.

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 19, 1999.

Uh, sorry, it doesn't quite work that way. When you get a loan from First Union they don't just type a number into your account and create money out of thin air. There's a fixed money supply--the $100,000 that gets added to your account gets subtracted from somewhere else. The central bank does create money like this when they want to, that's called diluting the currency. But private banks don't create money.

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), June 19, 1999.

No spam, this post is not for you, you are beyond help with regard to understanding the fiat money scandal.

I bought the books, of course, in Euro's, they being the only relatively gold backed currency these days:) I am paid in fiat dollars which I convert month ny month to gold and silver and other speculative plays.

The system is her so I have to use the system. areyou too dense to understand this?

if you would ever stop nit-picking you might see the big picture for a change.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 19, 1999.

Andy,

>Euro's, they being the only relatively gold backed currency these days:)

How are euros "relatively" gold-backed?

>I am paid in fiat dollars

So you accept that fiat dollars have value as a medium of exchange. Else why did you accept those terms of employment.

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 20, 1999.

Andy, >Euro's, they being the only relatively gold backed currency these days:)

How are euros "relatively" gold-backed?

[you haven't been reading my posts, there is a war going on between the dollar/imf and the euro/ibs factions, the dollar is based on thin air - you DO know how much the USA is in debt I trust? - and the euro is gold/oil backed... in very simple terms...]

>I am paid in fiat dollars

So you accept that fiat dollars have value as a medium of exchange.

[the dollar has value now yes... not too sure about the medium term hence i'm getting out of dollars...]

Else why did you accept those terms of employment.

[it's the way the system works - i am manouevering within the system to suit MY ends, not the feds, we can compare notes in a years' time and see how well the house of cards will have faired No Spam]

One last thing, beg borrow or steal those Icke books - get 'em from the library, you will not look at things quite the same again. i'm not claiming that he is totally correct on every point, but as near as dammit has the big picture nailed...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 20, 1999.

Andy,

Please answer the question straightforwardly -- Just how are euros "relatively" gold-backed?

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 20, 1999.

20% gold backed - read my posts man.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 20, 1999.

The following is an email letter sent to the Editor of the Australian Financial Review. The author sent it in response to an ill-informed and obviously biased article entitled "Dear gold! It's a government conspiracy" by AFT journalist Stephen Wyatt.

Dear Editor. I found your article on gold conspiracies lacking in fact but abundant in opinion. I thought you should have put it in your editorial section, not in your Market section. Below I have enclosed a copy of what I wrote on the subject of what appears to be really going on in the gold market, and the pressures that are being applied to it by the various factions. Feel free to publish it.

Steve Hickel -

Major Currency Battle Now Underway Masked by Equity Bubble

Current economic events boil down to two economic forces at work that essentially divide the world into two camps: debt holding countries of the US dollar and countries who are distancing themselves from US debt by way of physical gold possession and the Euro. All current world events seem to be explainable when viewed in this manner. The two camps are the US$/IMF faction (IMF is International Monetary Fund) and the Euro/BIS faction (BIS is Bank of International Settlement). The US$/IMF camp is dollar based paper and debt; the Euro/BIS camp is gold-based currency and gold bullion and oil.

The current run up in the US dollar and equities market is a result of the skewed influence of the US dollar in world economic events. Furthermore, it demonstrates strength when viewed from its existing role as a world reserve currency. It is this role of 'reserve currency' that is the focal point of a currency war now in progress. This currency war is masked, however, by the power and control of the media of the US$/IMF faction, and by the apparent strength of the dollar and the dollar denominated stock markets. It is this apparent strength that blinds all of us to the struggle now waging in world markets. Knowledge that the battle is in progress provides us with a perspective from which current economic events become crystal clear, because the players are Gold, the Euro, and the Dollar.

The strength of the dollar is its Achilles Heel. The equities market in the US has been fueled apparently by two major sources of funds: baby- boomer 401K plans, and the Yen and Gold-carry money. It is this latter source of money that has just now come into question as legitimate and healthy -- just look at Japan's economy and what the YEN carry trade has done there. It is the gold-carry trade that may be the David of the dollar Goliath or the hair of Samson.

Carry-trading in Yen and Gold is simple to understand. It is borrowing Yen or gold at a low interest rate, selling it into the market -- which drives the price down and the dollar up -- then buying US bonds or equities at a higher rate of return. The loan is repaid, the differential interest is pocketed, and the process is repeated -- as long as the price of the YEN and gold drop. Not long ago, the YEN carry trade was essentially stopped. More recently the gold carry trade has been slowed but not quite stopped. In the case of gold-carry, many of the gold-carry players rolled-over their loans and NEVER paid them back. They didn't have to until NOW: gold is currently priced at or below production cost.

Once the Central Banks (mostly European) slowed the leasing of gold, the estimated 14,000 tons of gold that has been involved in the gold- carry trade needs to be paid back. Needless to say, this is about one- half of the entire gold stockpile or above-ground gold of all central banks, so it is impossible to pay back the debt in gold as most of the Central Bank loans apparently demand. Consequently, the financial parties in the gold-carry business need a source of gold to pay back these loans. It appears that only two escape hatches exist for the gold-carry players. Keeping the price of gold down by shorting it on COMEX (this is akin to naked shorting as insufficient gold bullion doesn't appear to exist to cover the 200,000 open interest contracts) or repaying the loans in a medium acceptable to the banks who lent the gold in the first place. Since these are European banks and no large source of gold currently exists, the Euro may become the only accepted means of repayment.

One can see how the carry trades drove the Yen and is now driving gold to all time recent lows. In the case of the YEN more could be printed or made available for repayment. In the case of gold, only 2500 tons of gold are mined each year. To cover the estimated 14,000 ton gold shortage would require more than five years at current production levels and that is if all production was slotted for just that debt.

The remarkable thing about the carry trades is the shear number of financial institutions who have participated in it. In other words, the gold-carry trade is pervasive and to unwind it will affect many world financial institutions.

So back to the war of the Euro/BIS and the US$/IMF. Two anonymous representatives of the Euro/BIS camp have for the past two years come forward with their interpretation of events. They go by the handles or pen names of ANOTHER and Friend of Another. They have used the Internet as their medium of discussion and have provided a tome of information and opinion on this hidden war now unfolding. I believe they came forward after the Euro/BIS cards had been played. Their stated purpose is to ensure that the world knows that the currency war is in progress and that the apparent outcome for title of 'world reserve currency' ends up in the Euro/BIS camp.

Let me explain. They claim that the BIS and the European Central Banks allowed the gold-carry trade to go on for years in order to proliferate gold-based debt and worldwide physical ownership of gold, using Central Bank leasing as leverage. It has become so pervasive that leased-gold debt is part of many modern financial institutional balance sheets. Simply put, gold debt is extensive and there is none to be had to pay that debt. Almost all physical gold is accounted for and these loans continue to be rolled over. To make matters worse, mining production of most major mining companies is hedged (spoken for) up to 10 years. Thus the only way to pay back these loans that would be acceptable to these Central Banks in lieu of gold appears destined to be Euros.

In other words, this is the biggest currency sting in history. Nearly risk-free (or so they thought) low-interest money was available through the carry trades that everyone that knew about it got on board and cashed in. The result? The Central Banks are owed an alleged 14,000 tons of gold (with interest) by a wide-variety of institutions.

Now you can see why A/FOA believe that the US$/IMF faction has lost. They can't pay back their debts without converting to gold or Euro's and that means converting US bonds and equities into Euros or gold. Since there is virtually no physical gold to be had, we see an all out media campaign against gold that discredits gold image as a currency or medium of exchange and that reports large sales-to-be of IMF/Swiss/CB gold. The end result of this campaign (so far) is that gold continues to plummet in price (this in face of the largest demand for physical gold in history).

Now, thanks to A/FOA, light has been shed on the hidden battle for reserve currency. Up until the Euro was introduced, the only possible competitor for world reserve currency status was gold. Gold doesn't lend itself freely for exchange (hard to email it). With the introduction of the Euro that doesn't hold the debt load of the US dollar and has 15% of its reserve in gold bullion, a proxy for gold was born that can now compete with the dollar for the reserve currency status.

Please review these recent world-wide financial events using the above information as a filter:

- -- Gold approaches $292 and the Bank of England announces a sale only available to members of the LBMA (London Bullion Market Association). Price of gold drops to a 20 year low.

- -- The IMF announces a sale of gold to help poor countries (who would have benefited more if the price of gold was higher as most them were countries with producing gold mines). This was announced while the price of gold threatened to pass above $290.

- -- The Swiss vote on a national referendum to delink gold from the Swiss Franc and it passes.

- -- Major news organizations publish countless stories about gold is dead, gold is no longer a modern requirement for currency. (People become confused by this. Gold's popularity falls to an all time low, now rated at 21% popularity per Steve Kaplan).

- -- Gold no longer acts normally during major world crisis. Normally it would rally in the event of war or inflation.

- -- Major rumors of Goldman Sachs and other investment banks heavily shorting gold on COMEX further holds gold down during these major world-crisis. (I even read a rumor that said the Fed has a trading account with a major investment bank and is itself short gold.)

- -- The formation of GATA (Gold Anti-Trust Action) committee to investigate the apparent manipulation in gold markets.

- -- The unrelated yet recent announcements of copper and drug company price fixing.

Steve Hickel

7 June 1999

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 20, 1999.

I believe the US has 8,000 tonnes of gold - not enough, no cigar, no monica...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 20, 1999.

Andy,

When you say that the euro is "20% gold backed" and you follow that with a letter stating that "the Euro that ... has 15% of its reserve in gold bullion", one wonders ... Are these figures simply the result of dividing an amount of gold held by EMU member countries by the amount of euros in existence, rather than there being a formal relationship between the euro and gold as your "gold backed" phrase implies?

So why not just tell us straight-out what the formal relationship between the euro and gold is, Andy?

Do you mean that someone can walk into a EMU member country bank with a fistfull of paper euros (I know that euros are in only electronic form now -- I'm referring to a near-future time after euro paper currency issuance) and exchange them for physical gold?

Where do the "20%" and "15%" figure in this scenario? Do they mean that only 20% or 15% of the paper euros in existence will be able to be exchanged before the banks run out of gold? If so, how does that make the euro "gold backed"?

Does the 20% refer to all gold owned by EMU member banks including that which is leased out, whereas the 15% refers to only their non-leased gold?

Backing up a little, one reads in another posting of yours above that "the euro is gold/oil backed". Do you mean that the euro is 20% gold-backed and 80% oil-backed? That a holder of 100 euros can demand exchange for physical possession of 20 euros-worth of gold and 80 euros-worth of oil ("And how would you like that oil, Mr. Euro-Exchanger? Fifty euros in North Sea Brent and the rest in light sweet?" :-)?

Or just WHAT do you mean, Andy?

Can you say it straight out? Or admit that you can't?

>read my posts

To _which_ of your megabytage of postings do you refer? Please provide links or at least thread titles.

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 20, 1999.

... and why do I keep reading about an exchange rate between euros and dollars? If the euro is gold-backed, wouldn't that mean that its ratio to gold remained fixed? And that therefore the exchange rate between euros and dollars would be a simple inverse of the dollar's ratio to gold? And if it were a simple inverse, there'd be no need to quote it separately?

Looks a lot more to me like there is _no formal relationship_ between the euro and gold. Whenever I've read about the exchange rates between national currencies (e.g., German mark) and the euro, there hasn't been any mention of the price of gold in euros or vice versa.

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 20, 1999.

Uh, sorry, it doesn't quite work that way. When you get a loan from First Union they don't just type a number into your account and create money out of thin air. There's a fixed money supply--the $100,000 that gets added to your account gets subtracted from somewhere else. The central bank does create money like this when they want to, that's called diluting the currency. But private banks don't create money.

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), June 19, 1999.

Wrong, bucko. All money is created exactly this way. THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS A PRIVATE BANK. There is NO fixed money supply. The small local bank borrows from the Fed which creates the money out of thin air. What the local bank does to 'balance ' its books is completely irrelevant.

I strongly suggest 'The Debt Virus" by Jaikaran for an easy to grasp explanation of all this.

Regards,

Will

-- Will HUett (willhuett@usa.net), June 20, 1999.