I'm also concerned about zeal-filled muslims,but more so the foaming at the mouth christians who see y2k disruptions as a sign from god to dispach non-believers.Not possible,you say?If the small comunnities are on their own and the locals are'nt eating well and are cold,tolerance toward un-believers could wain fast.It may be spirtualy despicable,but in a survivalist situation,a non-christians life might depend on being able to pass as christian.My question is;is stating that "christ is the savior" enough? Or do I need to be able to incant various prayers of supplication? Do I need to refer to drinking christ's blood? Please don't blow me off as a troll,both my parents are agnostic and I wasn't raised around the rituals of this countries dominant religion.I would have to say that most of the people I've met that are vocaly christian are quite intolerant and they scare the bajeezus out of me.pro life yet pro death penalty.And seemingly,a disproportionate number of true gun nuts and militia nuts are claim very christian devotion.Please do not interpret this as a sweeping condemnation of christianity or Islam.I an NOT saying that all muslims or christians are whackos.I am asking for advice on how to deal with the one's that ARE whacko.thank's

-- concerned humanist (concerned.humanist@large.com), June 18, 1999

Answers

Munch, munch, slurp.....hmmm. Troll flavor. Impressive vocabulary for someone who so creatively abuses punctuation.

-- troll (busters@work.com), June 18, 1999.

Have you gone to public school, and received most of your news from the "major networks", by any chance?

Christians who do not follow the "Golden Rule" are animals (Chritian in name only) and should be treated as such.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), June 18, 1999.

Since you clearly have NO idea what religion is all about, maybe you could use the time to educate yourself on what Christians & Muslims actually believe. I suspect that your original question would answer itself.

BTW, pretending to believe in something that you don't can be very risky -- physically, emotionally, & spiritually.

-- another (wacky@Christian.person), June 18, 1999.

Probably have to drop the term "bajeezus" !!

-- ALURKER (nobody@nowhere.com), June 18, 1999.

Humanist,

Although I have been kicked out of two "Christian" churches, I still consider myself a Christian. It seems to me that the government churches are very much afraid of telling the truth for fear of losing their tax exempt statis. I don't trust government sponsered churches and I don't think you should either. Most have no idea why they exist and probably would not exist if people withheld their money from them.

It is natural for anyone to want protection for themselves and family. I have read some pretty radical info but I never have read or heard of any True Christian wanting to eliminate anyone based on any position. I have read trash put out by some claining to be Christian but who are probably what is known as "wolves in sheeps clothing". There are many out there.

I do have in my possesion a death threat from a non-christian group which accused me of being a "white racist" etc.

A True Christian would not threaten you or anyone based on your non- belief. Guns and swords do not convince anyone to believe anything except that perhaps the wielder making the threat against your life is a fake, assuming the person is making the threat in an attempt to further the cause.

In one statement from the Bible there are two swords to deal with, an offensive sword and a defensive sword. Christians are to use the defensive sword and are nowhere instructed to cleanse the world of infidels.

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), June 18, 1999.

oops,I seem to have started of a sectarian conflict.I understand that most christians do not consider the type of people I am concerned about "christian".Nevertheless,there are people out there with pretty extreme,intolerant viewpoints who consider themselves "christian".I'm not christian,and I don't care to wade through the bibel to find the retoric that will convince some gun-totin' jesus-crispy that I'm not one of "the other".Gary North thinks people like me should be stoned to death so spare me the incredulity.I'm not talking about the run of the mill Ned Flanders nice kind of christian.Slapping the title of troll on anything that ruffles your little feathers is intolerance just like any other.this is directly related to my fears about y2k.If you're christian and not a nutbag,fine,I'm not worried of talking about you.quit being so defensive.

-- concerned humanist (concerned.humanist@large.com), June 18, 1999.

Dear Concerned Humanist,

If your physical life depends upon it, lie like a dog and hopefully you will get fed like one. In the meantime, if you are really serious and concerned now while things are "normal," I seriously challenge you to make the following preparations. (1) Practice fasting now by stages to gain disipline over your appetites - no alcohol or recreational drugs.(1a) Fast from all meat, dairy and fish for 30 days. (1b) Fast from all solid food, but not liquid for three days. (2) During this period of learning self-denial, pray that God will reveal Himself to you and provide specific direction for your life.

If you really aren't a "troll" and are convinced the stakes are this high for your actual continued physical existence, I challenge you again. I'm not challenging you to do anything I haven't personally already done. Not only that, but my challenge dosen't even require you to change your beliefs (or lack of them). You do not have to belive in God to pray. In fact, let me be so bold as to suggest you begin your prayer as follows,"God - creator of all - I don't believe in you, but . . . "

On a final note, come back and post your observations. If you lie about your compliance it won't matter. How you impress people here dosen't matter - after all, according to you it's your butt you are concerned about anyway.

-- Procopious (valleycable@earthlink.com), June 18, 1999.

right on mark. everyone is a 'free moral-agent' it-ain,t-the talk'it,s the-walk.--mother theresa was best-example'she put her monet where her mouth-was.

-- al-d. (catt@zianet.com), June 18, 1999.

what's a "monet" st.theresa of calcutta had no money so that can't be it

-- ! (!@!.!), June 18, 1999.

we of the subgenious have been hiding among christians and other oriental cultists for thousands of years.if questioned,say "lord,jezuz died for my sins.the lord gave up his only begotten son that I might have redemption".If pressed further,tell them you're non- denominational,that you don't need anyone to shove down your throat how to love jezuz.most christians are so homo-phobic that any referance to things being shoved down throats will end conversations.now send $30$ to J.R."bob"Dobbs and reserve yourself a seat on board the pleasure cruisers to planet "x".that's right folks the church of the subgenious is THE ONLY religion to offer GUARANTEED salvation,or triple your money back!!

-- Rev.IvanStang (Istang@subgenious.com), June 18, 1999.

I don't like to slam religions,but the subgenious are whack.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 18, 1999.

"Gary North thinks people like me should be stoned to death so spare me the incredulity."

Humanist, when you make statements like that, incredulity is the only possible response.

-- persistant cookie (in@my.browser), June 18, 1999.

Its interesting to hear from someone who so obviously doesn't know what he's talking about --- you are not doing very well in giving a good impression of the agnostic/atheist relgion.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), June 18, 1999.

i have to wonder what kind of asshole gets kicked out of, not one, but two churches?!?! i thought churches opened their doors to everyone.........

very interesting.

b

-- b (b@b.b), June 18, 1999.

I think your best advice is to get out of the country, and go into the city.

-- Lurkin' (LurkI@lurk.on), June 18, 1999.

Hey, Procopious--cool words. I'd like to hear more. Perhaps you could start a thread on "Fasting:" ins and outs, spiritual aspects, necessity of disciplining the will, etc. It may prove an important tool in our future armamentaria.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), June 18, 1999.

Is no one interested in answering the humanist's question? Seems like all the responses just attacked him. He doesn't appear to be actually attacking Christianity, but has apparently come into contact with some wackiness or has heard enough to associate it with a lot of Christianity. Give him the benefit of the doubt and address the questions.

Actually defenses against wacky Christians are not that much different than responses against any wackiness. Avoid it as much as possible. Work with your friends and neighbors to prepare for whatever you expect Y2k to bring. If you are expecting roving gangs of thugs your response will be one thing, whether they call themselves Christian or not. Words are cheap. Watch the actions. If you are concerned about having food and water, there are plenty of Y2k preparedness sites and e-mail lists from which you can obtain information. If you think it will be a minor distraction your response to it should focus in that direction.

-- Dave H. (Nicea@aol.com), June 18, 1999.

concerned humanist, I'm not a Christian either, although I know a lot about it as I grew up in a Christian family and a very Christian community, and went to Church, revivals, Sunday School and was indoctrinated with the whole bagga dogma, but it didn't take. I rejected the whole thing, and it was as if I'd had a great weight was lifted off my shoulders. I too am agnostic, believing as Huxley said, much better than I can, that if there is a God, he/she/it is unknown and unknowable.

Having said that, I am taking your post seriously, and I don't think you have much to worry about from Christians. They worry much more about their souls, and getting to heaven etc., than they do about killing nonChristians. Watch out for Randall Terry though. He has said publically that Christians will hunt nonChristians down and kill them. That is not to say that over jealous groups won't flourish if things are really bad. But for the most part they will pray and beg to God and go on about their business. Actually, they really don't want to have much to do with non-believers, as they can't understand why we can't believe, and we are seen as an affront to their beliefs.

Oh, BTW, persistent cookie. Gary North *did* say that about stoning, only I thought he said it about stoning teenagers. Check out is Reconstructionist religion, or whatever it's called, for his philosophy of brotherly love.

Also, what or who is Bob Dobbs? Is he a minister, a nut, or a new comedian I'm not familiar with?

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 18, 1999.

First off, I feel your concern. and though it may well be justified, may I suggest that it is not just supposed Christians that you ought to been worried about. During those conditions that will come in the near future (reguardless of Y2K) many individuals & groups will revert to uncivial behavior. The behavior of Christians is no better or worse than most other people who follow one of the great religions of the world. If you study MOST religions you will find in general the same "rules" i.e. 10 commandments, etc. Even among agnostics, etc. there are "good" people who have very high ethics and morals. There are rotten - evil - people in EVERY religion. The problem: there is no clear cut way to tell good from bad at a glance, or even by some study of them. Up front evil is always going to be obvious. But subtle evil often may not be descerned until it is too late. The coming woes on the earth will be an accelerated "testing" time for everybody. When things get really tough, you may be blessed to find good christians who actully beleve AND follow the teachings of Christ. Like wise you may be blessed to fine other good humans beings of what ever faith or belief they may be. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people will not follow good teachings when the chips are down. Despite this somewhat gloomy outlook, true Christians & maybe other faiths will rejoice in these signs that preclude the Second Coming of Christ, even though individuals (like me) may suffer terribly from one of more of the circumstances of distress directly affecting them (me).

I could go way out on a personal limb to suggest what you might look into that could be of tremendous benefit to you and your loved ones. But not wanting to start a big mess and flame wars, etc, I shall at this time decline.

Not being acquainted with you to understand where you are truly coming from, it is impossible to be of much help. (Yes, your belief & especially attitude will play a big part in how well you survive.)

That guy who mentioned FASTing and PRAYer had a very good idea. If you are not familiar with praying, as in the Christian manner, I would be gald to explain how, and what to look for.

Personally, I have never fasted to the degree suggested, so I will not make comments for or against. But I can testify that FASTing on a regular basis, say once a month (in crises more often), with daily pray, can do wonderful things for a persons life.! Including safety for self & loved ones, etc. I have benefitted tremendously by doing so. It is wonderful to see & hear about others who have also received great value from fasting and praying.

Do not know if I have been of much help, but I am available for more comment if you desire. Sent me a direct e-mail if you are serious.

-- I.B.glad to answer (dwj10@hotbot.com), June 18, 1999.

Go to a church and learn yourself. If in California, may I suggest a Calvary Chapel? :-)

Kristi

-- Kristi (securx@succeed.net), June 18, 1999.

dear concerned humanist,

i'm going to start with my experience as a Christian, but if you want to skip this paragraph, the second para will be the practical advice you are looking for. i was raised as a roman catholic, and became disgusted with their doctrines before i was in high school. in high school i stopped going to church with my family and became an agnostic. fortunately my parents were wise enough to permit this kind of decision-making from a (gasp) teenager. in college, i became aware of what true Christianity was all about (very little in common with catholicism) and became a Christian at that time. it's been a tremendous time of learning since then, and i have the pleasure of being able to face whatever comes my way without fear of death.

practical para: if someone comes toward you waving a bible in one hand and a gun in the other, shoot first! there are Christians who believe that taking a life even for defensive reasons is not allowed (i am not one of them, obviously), but there are no *true* Christians who believe that offensive firepower is moral. in other words, you are not offending God by killing one of his self-professed children if that person is gunning for you and yours.

thanx for checking on this. please e-mail if you'd like to continue this discussion.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), June 18, 1999.

A true Born-Again Christian is not a saint in the sense that man implies. He does make mistakes and sins on a regular basis. My contention to the poster is that he must have a guilty conscience to attack Christians as he does or has been hurt by someone professing to be a Christian. There are alot of people who confess to be Christian who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. If you have to take time out to post against Christians then you must have been hurt by a so called Christian or church. Go to the Bible, study it yourself, don't ask anyone what it says. God will give you what you need of the truth to know the truth when you see it. It's too bad that even true believers have made mistakes of over zealousness that have turned others away from the one true God. They have not been living epistles. Mother Theresa was a living epistle, she lived the Word of God on a daily basis without having to say a word about how to get to God. You get to God by looking at the lives of those who are walking the walk and talking the talk. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to Christianity and don't post just to imflame those who can't help but try to convince you to get saved and that will solve all your problems. You can be saved and not live the life Christ has for you, therefore not be content or happy in what he has for you which is life eternal in heaven. Y2K is a bump in the road as far as history goes and what it means to where you end up. It's how you act towards your fellow neighbors and friends that will count.

-- True Born Again Christian (don't be left behind@the rapture.com), June 18, 1999.

Yup, Cowardly Lion, definitely best to skip that first paragraph. If you would like to discuss the Catholic faith vs. "true Christianity" do drop a line at the Greenspun Catholic board. You might find you don't know as much about the Catholic faith as you think.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), June 18, 1999.

The person who's asking the question here may not be able to check the credentials of everyone coming down the road, to find out whether or not they're a "True Christian". Some who profess that title are not always scrupulous about following the counsels of Jesus. Current case in point, the Serbian military and paramilitary now leaving Kosovo, formerly active at Srebrenica to the tune of 7,000 murders.

As for Gary North, these are direct quotes from his own writing:

"The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant--baptism and holy communion-- must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel."

Gary North, "Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism" (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1989), p. 87.

"The fifth and by far the most important reason is that stoning is literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock, which is symbolic of God. This is analogous to the crushing of the head of the serpent in Genesis 3:15. This symbolism testifies to the final victory of God over all the hosts of Satan. Stoning is therefore integral to the commandment against murder."

Gary North, "The Sinai Strategy: Economics and the Ten Commandments" (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1986), p. 123

"So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God."

Gary North, "The Intellectual Schizophrenia of the New Christian Right," in Christianity and Civilization: The Failure of the American Baptist Culture," No. 1 (Spring, 1982), p. 25.

"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non- Christians."

Gary North, "Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism" (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1989), p. 102.

I hope North represents only a radical fringe of fundamentalist Christianity in this country. But I think the questioner has asked a good question. Whether there are any good answers or not is still another question.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), June 18, 1999.

Hmm.... interesting that you only ask how to respond to the whacky "Christians", not the whacky Muslims, Buddhists, animal rights activists, gay rights activists etc. I profess Christ as not just an historical figure, but living and reigning Lord, but to me, a "whacko is a whacko". Period. So yes, whether they wave a Bible and gun, Koran and gun, shoot to defend yourself. How do you interact with whackos? Good question. I try to avoid them. I was invited to visit the Aryan Nations church, and then threatened with death when I merely replied... "No thank you". Try reading "Evidence that Requires a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. Give you lots to go on if you feel the need to fake it. Perhaps challenge your present agnosticism. After all, if I'm wrong, I lose nothing, and if you're wrong, you lose everything forever (paraphrasing Blaise Pascal). So stay away from whackos (!) and don't worry about true professing Christians, they are more likely to die for you than kill you.

-- Mumsie (Lotsakids@home.com), June 18, 1999.

All right, Y2Kers, if you think America will survive the Millenium with the Legions of Christ breathing down your neck while you try and re-establish yuppie civilization, don't fret. The Founding Fathers(tm) had to deal with them, too. Let those who cherish Liberty heed the words of Patriots:

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence of the clergy; ignorance and sedrvility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison "A Memorial and Remonstrance" 1785 "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in allance with the despot...."

-Thomas Jefferson to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

"I cannot say that I am descended from the bastards of Oliver Cromwell, or his courtiers, or from the Puritans who punish their horses for breaking the Sabbath, or from those who persecuted the Quakers and burned the witches." Matthew Lyon (1746-1822)

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, and legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that every existed." -John Adams to F. A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hand of the clergy."

-General Marquis de Lafayette (1789)

-- John A. Shaffer (jas11@psu.edu), June 18, 1999.

Mumsie,

>interesting that you only ask how to respond to the whacky "Christians", not the whacky Muslims, Buddhists, animal rights activists, gay rights activists etc.

On whose calendar is next year 2000? The End/Beginning of The Millennium?

Not the Mulsims' calendar. Not the Buddhists' calendar.

_That_'s why 'concerned humanist' asks about Christians in particular.

-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 18, 1999.

Uh, Mark,

In regards to your statement "It is natural for anyone to want protection for themselves and family. I have read some pretty radical info but I never have read or heard of any True Christian wanting to eliminate anyone based on any position", what part of the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials ( to site only two) don't you understand?

We won't even think about Ireland....

-- malcolm drake (jumpoff@echoweb.net), June 19, 1999.

speaking for the buddhists,history has no example of buddhists killing others in the name of buddhism or Lord Buddha.in the words of Lord Buddha...."play nice"

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 19, 1999.

I have never, not even once, been approached by a Muslim, Buddhist, animal rights activist, gay rights activist, etc., about their particular faith or cause. But since I quit the church many years ago, periodically, I've been approached by Christians, to "come to church, come to the fellowship supper, buy tickets or chances on things, come back and see if you don't feel better, (not that I didn't feel fine) or any dozens of reasons to try and get me back into the fold."

Once they even went door to door in the neighborhood doing a survey to find out, "If you don't go to church, why not?" Talk about nerve!! That's why mumsie.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 19, 1999.

if some one asked the same question about buddhists,the answer would simple;"I go for refuge to the Buddha,the dharma,and the sanga",only Buddhists, or people "passing" as buddhistswould ever say that.after that,it's pretty hard to pass as a buddhist since the religion is oriented towards"practice" and not "belief". concerned humanist asked what to tell whackos to convince them that humanist is also christian,he/she also said that he/she was not interested in studying the bible or converting.with great arrogance the christians chimed in telling humanist to a)read the bible,and b) convert to the true faith of christianity.Ironicly enough,the subgenious whacko gave the best account of the dogma that would most likely mollify an insane christian.and as a member of a non-violent religion that has been dumped on by monotheistic followers,I don't think concerned humanists cynicism is undue.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 20, 1999.

djw10: Do you even realize how incredibly self righteous, self centered, arrogant, obnoxious, back handed, prejudicial, self serving and rude this statement of yours is?:

"Even among agnostics, etc. there are "good" people who have very high ethics and morals."

It's cliche.

Concerned Humanist: You are right to be afraid. People tend to mistreat outsiders and people that they fear. There is a sizable proportion of Christians who believe that others are dangerous, and they will do what they think they need to to protect themselves from the likes of you and me. It will be important to stand up to religious bigotry and persecution whenever we can do so safely. In an environment of door to door 'cleansing,' however, it may be wise to move to somewhere you are not known.

Take time now to collect some relevant material, then continue with your other perparations. If it becomes unsafe to go outdoors, you can then spend some time with that literature. The only way to really pass, though is by dint of doing... join a congegation and learn the jargon & dress... This would NOT be unethical. Alternatively, you might join a church that might be more to your taste, such as a Unitarian Universalist church, which is very accepting of a wide variety of creeds, including none at all. This might allow you to "pass." Caution, though, (I'm fairly sure you're aware), on identifying yourself as a humanist, since this word makes fanatics see red.

-- Dancr (minddancr@aol.com), June 23, 1999.

I have to go with Concerned Humanist here. Not once have I ever had a Muslim show up on my door step. Christians? Every couple weeks. Never mind I have "NO TRESPASSING" signs posted, they keep coming down my very long lane. I even had one swear at me when I politely said I was not interested in what they had to say. She was standing there, with her 5 year old daughter, and began swearing at me because I wouldn't accept Jesus into my life. I asked her what sort of example she was setting for her daughter and slammed the door in her face.

Remember folks...Christanity was spread by such things as the Crusades and the Spanish Inqustion....friendly group of folks.

-- Is religious, and don't need any more (notinterested@go.away), June 23, 1999.

NOTE TO LOVING CHRISTIANS WHO WANT TO KILL US: Look, we're for peaceful co-existence. We're not really that far apart. You worship the Vindictive Crybaby SchoolMarm Jesus -- many Subs worship the Live-It-Up, Hell-Raisin', FIGHTIN' JESUS. You worship a dead guy on a stick, we worship a chopped-off head that gets hit with a stick. Isn't there some common ground? (The Founder of Christianity wans't as asqueamish as his modern fan club. He was compassionate towards the weirdos, sinners, and victims of his day, and he was also PISSED at the NORMALS of his day. And, like "Bob," he didn't want to KILL them, but merely to LEAD them, as a shepherd leads his flock. Keeping them happy until the slaughter. The Harvest...ahhh, yes... THE HARVEST!!!)

-- praise "BOB" (!@!.!), June 26, 1999.

procopious, your comments on fasting are quite interesting.I try to take a 3 day fast at least every other month,it really helps bring into focus how spoiled we are when we talk about "starving"when we miss a meal.But fasting has certianly never made christianity more appealing to me! Perhaps the deconstructive nature of Buddhism protects me!

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 28, 1999.

it's crazy time!

-- skip (skip@aol.com), June 28, 1999.

Welcome back E. Coli. New handle I see.

-- lurker (lurking@the.forum), June 28, 1999.

you'll burn in hell for denying christ

-- born again (saved@jesus.com), July 01, 1999.

I just knew it had to happen! Sooner or later someone would bring up that old threat I heard so much as a child, "you'll burn in hell for denying christ." Now isn't that a nice piece of Christian blackmail; believe in me or burn in hell. But threats and emotional blackmail never have worked with me. Why would I want to take up with a savior whose only recourse to bring me to heel is the threat of everlasting hellfire? Uh, thanks, but no thanks.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 01, 1999.

While yet the least approachable or scrutable of the vast SubGenius membership, he is the preeminent and most frequently invoked of the god-zillion Personal Saviors of the SubGenius. While he remains an anonymous executive shunning publicity or recognition at a faceless multinational corporation, he is nevertheless The Most Ascended Master, the original Retriever of Jehovah's Message on Earth and basic model of the Archetype SubGenius. He set the "anti-pattern" of random conduct among all those who are now practicing SubGeniuses. His are the defects and peccadillos that we 'analize,' his the Slongs and Jests which we devotedly twist and distort for future generations according to our unexplored whims. - And yet the only photos of him that exist are grainy frame blow-ups from Grade Z movie thrillers in which he played bit parts!

-- rev.ganjaman (ganjaman@subgeniuo.com), July 02, 1999.

ok,now I'm freaked out about these subgenious freaks,are they for real.they're nuts!!!

-- concerned humanist (concerned.humanist@large.com), July 05, 1999.

If you haven't seen/read it already, check out Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale, a dystopian novel about a near future in which fundamentalists have taken control of what used to be the United States. This might give you some insight into the mindset and possible dangers.

-- Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California (minddancr@aol.com), July 12, 1999.

The Church of the Subgenius is not a proper religion. It's an organised bunch of nuts.

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), July 12, 1999.

In the town I live in, a church actually offers Christian Tae-Kwon-do classes. Since I was looking around for a personal defense program curiosity got the best of me. Thinking I would see a bunch of folks turn the other cheek and get their asses kicked I was most dissapointed. The only thing that was religeous in context was towards the end of class. The instructor set up a confrontational scenario in which he asked the class-"What would Jesus do?" Of course my hand shot up and I replied-"The Almighty would deliver a spinning round house kick to the adversaries temple!" Needless to say I was escorted off the premises.

-- BOB (BOBisGOD@aol.com), July 12, 1999.

So Leo, why don't you define what a proper religeon is?

-- Sam S. (Cofkee@aol.com), July 17, 1999.

"Concerned humanist" is right: a fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic.

As for the know it all who was so quick to criticize his grammar and call him a "troll", you've proved his point.

-- Terry C (TCall2002@aol.com), March 15, 2003.

A lot of people on this forum were worried about potential computer problems happening in January 2000, which arguably makes them fanatics since as it turns out there weren't many computer bugs at that time. On the other hand, I didn't encounter any Christian zealots in January 2000 in my neighborhood or anywhere else either, so it could also be argued that "concerned humanist" was a fanatic too for worrying about a problem (Christian zealatry) that never came about.

-- Time for everyone to (get@a.life), March 17, 2003.