As a member of a very well known church,who's sunday morning service can be seen around the world. I am highly disappointed with mine and all the churches around the world not doing more to promote proactive preparedness concerning the y2k. Y2k will be a serious matter that will cause great suffering. I dont see how it is Very christian not to promote proper preparation of dealing with the potential problems y2k will cause. Many churches just refuse to deal with the issue. It upsets me so to see this going on at this late date so close to the y2k. Were suppose to set the example of caring. I dont get why were seeing such a low turn out on this issue by the church. God please send some one to help explain why this is so. My hope is that in these last 100 + days that we see every church around the world set the record in their preparedness actions . Loving is caring and feeding everyone,Spiritually and physically. Victory over y2k in the name of JESUS.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation .com), June 17, 1999

Answers

You should realize that good old Satan (Lucifer) has total control of the whole world, INCLUDING CHURCHES! He wants people to suffer and die during Y2K! He's been doing this since the beginning of time! You can read about all his shenanigans in all the history books!

YES, SATAN IS REAL! Only the Y2K GI's see through his BS!

-- smitty (smitty@sandiego.com), June 17, 1999.

They will, but it will be to late.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), June 17, 1999.

My perception of the problem is that it is one of overwhelming social consciousness-particularly in the larger churches. There is apparently a nagging, gnawing fear that if the church is not relevant (and MOST importantly) SEEN to be relevant by embracing the latest PC cause(s), that they will lose what little voice (draw?) they have. There is a doctrinal argument that says if one uses precious church resources to prepare (never mind the historical and Biblical precedents) and diverts them from efforts to win new souls, then that is prima faecia (sp?) evidence that one's faith in Christ is lacking or even non-existent.

Then there is the argument that if a church does something practical like setting up a soup kitchen, they are, in effect cutting into the turf of the various secular social welfare agencies and the inevitable result will be that needy people will suffer even more because the government-at all levels-would be more than happy to cede (or foist off) the job and eliminate "welfare" items from the budget.

So what's the solution? I don't know-maybe find a smaller church. I know congregations that are selling their inner city churches in order to devote the money received and remaining time to witnessing and assorted good works. They meet for a short time in odd places-one is a parking garage, and then go forth to hospitals and missions and similar destinations. If you are a Christian, I think you know what I mean by the remaining time...

-- Greg Lawrence (greg@speakeasy.org), June 17, 1999.

Of course they aren't preparing; there isn't any money to be raked in from it, just money going out. It isn't as attractive on TV as big choirs and elegant architecture.

As a Mennonite said about extravagant spending on nonessentials in the book Living More With Less, "Christians sure can put a high polish on sin."

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 17, 1999.

Churches smurches.

With most churches being 501c3 corporations, and thus being restricted on what they can say, it is very uncommon for most "places of worship" to comment on anything that has happened in thousands of years!

...excluding of course, black inner-city churches that have political candidates address the congregation - IN STRICT VIOLATION OF THE IRS REGULATIONS!

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), June 17, 1999.

Y2K Aware Mike:

I, and others note the same thing. I teach Sunday School, and the Pastor asked me to talk about Y2K. 12 people (2 more than normal) showed up --- and only one of them is now preparing. The materials I left for a church "Y2K library" have not been looked at by anyone since I provided about 60 different articles (Yourdon, Hyatt, Yardeni, North, GAO, Victor P, Rick Cowels). The pastor and I are basically trying to prepare for the church (have started a food "pantry" (storing) extra supplies, oher steps). But the rest are MIA (or non-A).

The point: church people in regards to many areas, including Y2K, are little different than non-Christians (for instance the divorce rate is almost identical). The denial, addiction to good times, intellectual stupor, government dependence, and apathy has infiltrated their thinking as much as anyone elses. The church in general IS "lukewarm" at best right now. But it will awaken --- only God knows when, probably not 'till after Y2K or some other diasaster.

Thank God for those few churches that ARE aware of the times we live in and haven't compromised or been filled with compromising people. So I generally try to deal with "realists" (Christian or not) either in church or the many on this forum --- its refreshing.

At least the people here (even when they're flaming or swearing) aren't blank slates overwritten by "the world".

-- Jon Johnsony (narnia4@usa.net), June 17, 1999.

Basically, as an ex-Catholic with PLENTY of church experience, they are useless at worst and incompetent/corrupt at best.

A sad tale.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 17, 1999.

Here is a bit of good news. We go to the largest church in Michigan. Mount Hope Church and International Outreach. Dave Williams is pastor. This church seats 3,000 and we have a Saturday evening service and 4 services on Sunday. Most services are full. Last October Pastor Dave informed the people about y2k, preached preparedness and told what the church was doing to prepare. He said the church had purchased a very large generator, they would be drilling a well, purchasing kerosene heaters, stocking food, clothing, and first aide supplies. This winter Mount Hope had a one hour prime time television special that was shown locally, to inform the public about y2k. Pastor Dave and the church received a lot of negative comments from the local press and was accused of preaching the end of the world stuff, which he did not do. This special was shown on CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, AND PAX. Mount Hope is preparing to help. Pastor Dave, last Sunday cut the prices in half of all of the y2k books, etc that Mount Hope has available, so more people could become aware. They really didn't cost that much to begin with. Y2k information is available on Mount Hope's web site at www.mounthopechurch.org/index.html if anyone is interested. God Bless All. Lori.

-- Lori (ABaby72@aol.com), June 17, 1999.

As a person who chose to be a non-Baptist, with plenty of church indoctrination that didn't take, "they are usless at best and incomptent/corrupt at best."

Anybody read about Pat Robertson's deal with Liberian dictator concerning his lucrative gold operation?

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 17, 1999.

Most of the above posters fail to understand or are uninformed of the ongoing activity by church groups in preparation for any disaster including but not limited to Y2K.

On 6/15-16/1999, I attended a two day Disaster Preparedness Seminar for the state of Ohio sponsored by the Lutheran Disaster Response a joint effort of the two largest Lutheran churches in America the ELCA and the LCMS and attended by Lutherans, Roman Catholic and Episicopal volunteeers. This meeting included presentations by the Regional Director of the American Red Cross, two session by the Ohio Emergency Management Agency including the Chief of Emergency Preparedness (Lt Col Cal Taylor), Lutheran Social Services, and Volunteer Organizations Active in Disaster. It also included a statewide strategy section for coordianted effective response. The next meeting is August 11, 1999 in conjunction with VOAD with ongoing development work for the individual, congregation, community, county and state.

I came away from this meeting with the knowledge that Y2K is being given a sharp focus and multiple, redundant "defense-in-depth" coordination by the State of Ohio, County EMA, churches and private enterprises similar to but in broader scope than the response to a serious flood, hurricane or localized national disaster.

Appropriate preparation was encouraged, OEMA suggested preparation for 10-14 days as the most likely scenario based on the assumption that shortages and security problems are within a minimal impact. Red Cross and OEMA suggested that churches might want to seek out the most vulnerable like nursing home or elder care or others and see what their unmet needs might be.

In short, I suggest IF you are concerned about Y2K impacts, your church is one of the best local sources of help and care in times of disaster. The church is an established vehicle for community care and disaster recovery. By making peace with God and working through the church within the community, everyone's help is welcome to mitigate the potential for disaster and address the needs for recovery.

Peace,

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), June 17, 1999.

Local church congregations are focused on meeting the needs and expectations of their membership (those who pay the bills through their donations). The needs and expectations of the congregation are rooted in the past, not the future. So churches tend strongly to focus on things that have happened, not on things which will happen. Very reactive, not proactive. (IMO)

There are exceptions where churches have strong leadership and the leadership is focused on dealing with future things (positioning themselves to meet future needs). Sometimes this is because the church is run autocraticly by the pastoral figure who leads by decree. When this is too strong then we begin to think of this as a sect or cult.

In most church congregations pastors provide a limited leadership role for the congregation. They are 'service' oriented in the sense of serving the wants and needs of those who attend. They are called upon when 'needed'. For many of them this is a career. They know that there is one out of work pastor for every pastorate and unless they lead very gently they will become one of those who have no pastorate. Some pastors have a devotional bent, some are more concerned with ceremonial roles. Often they just try to do the best in the situation hoping that some trend toward good is established in the congregation (vs engendering a church split or being tossed out by the elders/deacons).

IMO most congregations are not going to get this until the congregation itself wakes up to the issues. The churches will follow their people.

One of the biggest problems for churches is donations. Typically they run hand to mouth. When stern warnings are sounded then people divert their donantiond to personal preparations and the church goes into bancrupcy. The church mortgage is the last casualty of this (because the banks don't care why they just want the payment). The pastor gets hit with no paycheck pretty quickly.

Just some thoughts.

-- ..-. (dit@dot.dash), June 17, 1999.

In a recent bulletin, my church announced that it will form a group to study and advise the congregation on Y2K. Naturally they are looking for knowledgable volunteers. Emphasis is likely to be on increased donations to the local food pantry, outreach to elderly and preparing for that "three day winter storm" thing. It is amazing to me that my church would even consider addressing Y2K. We just built a large multi-million dollar church building and wing additions are planned to be added to the main building. Much emphasis on paying down the new mortgage in ten years as opposed to twenty. Funny that I am having trouble bringing myself to volunteer to help. I'm somewhat of a "doomer". They aren't likely to be receptive to my leanings.

-- Jeff (jeff@work.now), June 17, 1999.

We are not... We finished our series of Y2K prep talks and advice to the community last month. We are currently setting up a food bank with several churches in the area. We are doing work out here. As you might assume, it isn't well publicized.

-- Reporter (reporter_atlarge@hotmail.com), June 17, 1999.

American churchgoers and religionists today want comfortable, feel- good religion that follows their lead, not vice-versa.

American (and by-in-large most worldy church traditions) religion is empty and void of substance, as scripture points out "they have the form of religion but deny the power of it."II Tim. 3:1-5 Everyone wants the "You will get all you need if you believe" crap. They don't want to worshop the God of accountability, the God of Wrath, the God who gave the Commandments....they only want to worship the God of Love, forgetting the other priciples of God that demand action and obedience. They want a god that listens to THEM, they don't want to listen to God.

Churches today are mirrors of the culture. They have remade God into their own desired image and are in reality worshipping themselves. American religion is no different than American politics.

Because of this, why should any be surprised that churches are as deaf and blind to Y2K as they are to sin?

They are about to be rudely awoken from their apathy along with the rest of American culture.

-- servant of Him (falsegods@churchtoday.net), June 17, 1999.

I've talked to quite a few church people, leaders, pastors, etc. Gave a wakeup talk to a church coalition.

Mostly they are wary of Y2k because it's awfully close to millennialist ideas. They don't want to tell people to get ready for ANYTHING, because people will think the pastor is talking about the second coming, or hitching a ride on a comet god forbid. They don't know how to preach Y2k-preparedness without being cult-tainted.

But they are (people I've talked to) interested, and once the problem gets real (big failures this year) I think they will jump right in and organize food banks, emergency services, etc. The whole thing is a wonderful opportunity for churches to strengthen in their neighborhoods, so it's to *their* advantage. Ok by me -- I don't attend, but I'll take whatever help I can get.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), June 17, 1999.

These quotes, from two very different people, may suggest an answer to the original question:

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence, and in this respect ministers of religion follow gospel authority more closely than in some others." (Bertrand Russell in 'Education and the Social Order,' 1947)

"It is not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts those who wield it and fear of the scourge of power corrupts those who are subject to it." (Aung San Suu Kyi, 1990)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), June 17, 1999.

Many churches (and even most of the Christian television shows) are devoted to the "prosperity gospel." How can they justify talking about economic hard times? What would happen to their "donations?"

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), June 17, 1999.

Mike,

"Come out from among them and be separate!" "Be salt and light to the world, but if the salt has lost its savor, what is it good for but to be tossed out.!" "If you don't stand for something , you'll fall for anything!" "Be all that you can be, in the ARMY!" (GOD'S ARMY!)

Remember, you can't fight a battle until you first know who/what the enemy is. This current enemy is Greed, Fear, Ignorance, Pride, Lies,Deception, et al. Some enemy , Huh Mike? Any chance a lukewarm pew potato has a chance of GI? I agree with your beliefs, however, all you can do is prepare yourself, thank God for your insight and intelligence and ask HIM what you can do personally one on one to affect positive change and let HIM lead. If the world looks dark and growing darker, don't curse the darkness, it's a result of the dimness of the light !!!!!

I've been where your at now for over 20 years, Y2K notwithstanding, "same crap, different day." Jesus said, "Occupy till I come." Smile, keep everybody wondering! Then, maybe they will come seeking you out for what you know.

-- rob (rgt350@aol.com), June 17, 1999.

Churches have to toe the establishment line to maintain their tax exemptions. The bigger the church the more it caters to the mainstream boobs. (And the little churches cater to the wackos.) Nothing of use ever came from a church; why should now be different?

-- A (A@AisA.com), June 17, 1999.

It's very simple we live in a materialistic society with a materialistic church,pastors,church councils,finance committees.y2k disrupts future plans thus might disrupt future giving if taken seriously. Don't want people to spend the tieth on preps. In today's society people wouldn't hesitate on spending the tieth. No faith in god. Signs of the times. I believe God is getting ready to strip this materialistic society of it's wealth so he can do a greater work. He will bring us to our knees literally. Prepare for the worst and put your trust in god. You won't be so disappointed when this luxurious life isn't quite as easy living. He want's you to know he is in control of your future, not your 401k or Goverment programs. His Mighty work is about to begin.

-- Trusting God (Jesus@is the way.com), June 17, 1999.

WHY ALL THE CONCERN OVER Y2K ? AS A BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIAN, I FIND IN MY DAILY STUDY IN THE BIBLE THAT THE UNSAVED POPULATION OF THIS WORLD WILL NOT HEED TO ANY SOUND DOCTRINE PREACHING. AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH....................................GOD WILL DESTROY THIS WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. EVERYONE IS SEEMILY LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN AT THE END OF THIS YEAR. WHEN THE CLOCKS STRIKE MIDNIGHT 12-31-99 AND ALL IS SEEMINGLY WELL AND GOOD, THE WORLD WILL ROCK AND ROLL TO IT OWN BEAT AGAIN, THINKING THEY HAVE WAITED OUT THIS Y2K HIPE AND HAVE CAME OUT VICTORIOUS AGAIN......BUT JUST HOLD ON....GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL OF THIS WHOLE SITUATION. HIS TIME TABLE AND CALENDAR IS FAR MORE CORRECT THAN OURS. HE KNOWS WHEN HE WILL SEND HIS SON JESUS AFTER HIS CHILDREN (WHAT WE LIKE TO REFER TO AS THE RAPTURE). THE GRAVES WILL BURST OPEN AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST THEN THOSE WHO REMAIN WILL BE CAUGHT UP TO MEET THE LORD IN THE SKY. WHEN THIS HAPPENS NO ONE LIVING CAN BE SAVED. ...WHAT A AWFUL TIME THAT WILL BE..... FROM ALL INDICATIONS AND SIGNS IT WILL BE SOON. JUST READ THE HEADLINES AND LISTEN TO THE NEWS BROADCASTS. BIBLE SCRIPTURES ARE BEING FULFILLED EVEN AS YOU READ THIS. THE NEWS MEDIA WILL EXPLAIN OUR DISAPPEARANCE AND ABSENCE AWAY. (MY,MY MAYBE THE COMET DID COME FOR THEM, HA!) WHATEVER THEY SAY, WE WILL BE IN HEAVEN WITH THE LORD FOREVER. EVERYONE THAT IS LEFT IN THIS CORRUPT WORLD WILL SUFFER FAR MORE THAN THE SMALL INCONVENIENCE THAT Y2K MAY IMPOSE. SO LETS FOCUS 100% OF OUR ATTENTION TO THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE TODAY. WINNING SOULS TO THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. GET BUSY CHRISTIANS, TIME IS DRAWING NIGH.........

-- R.J. Marion (PLASTICS@INFOAVE.NET), June 17, 1999.

Well I have to admit I'd like to the the "graves burst open and the dead rise." What was the name of that horror movie where the dead came back to life. Was it "Night of the Living Dead?"

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 17, 1999.

y2k aware mike:

Jesus said, "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" (Revelation 3:14-17 KJV)

Does that answer your question?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 18, 1999.