okay - I'm going to attempt to ask some questions that I have - serious to me.

Not sure what kind of label you will assign to me - but from my perspective, I am someone who is trying to cover as many of the bases that I can - without causing a major scene. My husband is a "non-believer", but he is humoring me - as long as I do not get "carried away". I have been doing alot of research in preparedness - and attempting to understand the complicated technological explanations on why there will be a problem.

here is my basic premise: Preparation for Y2K can't hurt - this prep can be used in good stead for other disasters (natural) and unforeseen emergencies (unemployment). Please don't take that to mean that I am merely "dabbling" with the concept. I truly am trying to "get with the program". If it matters - I actually became aware of the Y2K problem in the late 1980s - but did not lose my optimistic perspective until last year.

Some of the preparations I have already made:

72 hour kits in cars and home enough food for at least 6-9 months lots of 2-liter bottles (both empty and some in freezer) generator well water (no hand pump yet) pet preparations other water arrangements - enough to last at least 1-2 months enough reading material to last until the next millenium blankets, warm clothes, alternate heating source Garden up and running (to include medicinal herbs)

here are some of my questions.

1. How critical is it to be "debt-free"? I have other reasons to want this - but what are the specific Y2K reasons?

2. What is a good "Y2K test"? When I suggested to hubby that I wanted a practice Y2K weekend - and wanted to throw the switch on our all-electric home to see where our alternate prep glitches were - his eyes glazed over and he said we couldn't do that yet since he didn't have all the stuff to make the generator work - told me we needed to plan our test more carefully.

3. When will I know that I am "done" preparing? Let me save you the trouble of the obvious smart alec answer of 1/1/2000. Is it a comfort level thing? When will I be entering into the "over-kill" zone?

that's about covers my issues - might think of more later - thanks in advance for your input.

-- justme (not@home.com), June 07, 1999

Answers

"Don't go overboard?" You've done about as much prep as I have, and I'm considered the neighborhood NUT. Good work, but I recommend the 55-gallon plastic water drums from Sam's Club (stock # 968070) @ $22.99 each.

How big is your genset?

To me, being debt-free isn't really an issue. If the banks fail, we'll all be "debt-free" anyway. Banks couldn't POSSIBLY foreclose on EVERYONE. To me, having food, water, shelter, heat, and power is MORE important than MONEY issues.

Good test? Throw the switch for a weekend. See what happens.... Learn from your discomfort, and alter preps accordingly.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 07, 1999.

don't prepair in a manner that the sky MUST fall in,that's too much

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 07, 1999.

Good preps! However, without knowing exactly what is going to happen, it make sense to keep expanding your options to adapt and meet new situations. A good library of books opens your options enormously. So does medical knowledge and experience. Seeds are adifferent kind of library and include any number of possibilities for businesses and homemade crafts: broom corn, bamboo, dry land crops for low water situations, good winterkeeping foods, bug deterrents and so forth.

-- seraphima (seraphima@aol.com), June 07, 1999.

I am ready to pull the switch in the cold months of the year (upstate NY), but I honestly can't bear the thought of no air-conditioning next summer. And a generator is, to my way of thinking, not a survival neccessity... what suggestions do those of you who live in the south have for pulling the plug and life without air-conditioning.

One can always bundle up when it is cold, and throw another log on the fire to heat up the stew, but what on earth does one do when it is 95 degrees outside, with percent humidity to equal that number?

Sincerely want to know how to "beat the heat"...

-- housemouse (jgj@nevermind.net), June 07, 1999.

Housemouse -

To "beat the heat" you do what they do in torrid desert locations... you get up at the crack of dawn and work until 10am when the sun starts to be murderous. You then lay low and take a "siesta" in the shade for several hours then 'round about 6pm you finish up until the sun sets. The name of the game is to avoid strenuous labor during the peak sun-intensity times.

HTH

LunaC

-- LunaC (LunaC@moon.com), June 07, 1999.

Being debt-free is not as critical as being paid-ahead. This means you make extra house and car payments to go a few months into next year. That will give you some recovery time if the mail stops running, etc. And you won't have to worry about foreclosure. The banks may not foreclose on everyone, but they will foreclose on some people until they can't handle the additional overhead associated with the foreclosures. ... A 'Y2K Test' sounds like a good idea, but it will probably only tell you if you missed something obvious. A weekend is not going to give you any feed back on the items you might need in a week or a month. It's hard to recognize the 'occasional' items. ... I would say just prepare until you have reached a comfort level. Each person and family has different needs, so everyone's comfort zone is different.

As for keeping cool in the summer... Well, good luck, I live in Florida and still don't know what I'm going to do if the power outages last that long. Although, I do know that eventually your body will adjust to the heat, even though most of us prefer the nice cool air conditioning of our homes.

-- DJ (reality@check.com), June 07, 1999.

Housemouse,

I have worked outside, hard labor, when the temp was 115 by 10:00 AM, ( I didn't want to know what it was at 3:00 PM ) we worked 18 hrs that day, outside and in the sun ( Sac., Ca. area ). Drink lotsa water and ignore it. ( age? late 30's at the time )

You are tuffer than you know,

-- CT (ct@no.yr), June 07, 1999.

It was important to my peace of mind to be debt free next year since I'm not so sure I have a job that will hold up well if things fall apart.

You might also think about supply chain issues, like stuff that would come from Asia. No so warm clothes, shoes, etc. Eye glasses, meds.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), June 07, 1999.

CT...when I read your post, I KNEW you were from California. And yes it get darn hot there, esp the Sact' area and up around Redding. But I moved from the West coast to Florida 4 years ago. You CANNOT compare California heat with eastern seaboard. If you have never been in the east (or midwest) on a hot humid day, you have no conception of it. In the first place, the most miserable time of the day is when the sun is coming up and the dew begins to evaporate. It may be 70 degrees, but you can't breathe. At 10am it may be 90 but the dew has all evaporated and it much more bearable. Soooooo, what do you do in the summer time. I wish someone would tell me. One cannot use an abundance of water if there is no power. I can walk about 400 yds to a lake, but its very warm water in the summer and a lot of people swim there because of its nice beach (no reeds and grass to hide alligators) and frankly, I wonder what the bacteria count is in the lake in that heat. So....I don't have an answer. I often wonder how the women gardened and canned over a wood stove down here. But while I was raised in California, I was born and lived in Up State NY until I was 6. I remember the humidity and my mother canning and the water was running down the kitchen walls from the condesate. Got sweat bands? Taz

-- Taz (Tassie @aol.com), June 07, 1999.

1. Debt-free is a great way to live in plain old normal times. If the banks crash you absolutely should have enough cash on hand to pay all of your local taxes, real estate, auto, etc. What DJ said is very good. If you still have car or house payments, pay ahead or have enough cash on hand to pay in cash for several months if possible. If there are expected expenses like sewer fees that are small, pay those in advance. If their billing system crashes and you have a statement from 11/31/99 that says you have a credit of $84.27 that's harder to argue against than whether you mailed a check on 12/28/99. I think that the economic/monetary side of Y2K is going to require a lot of dexterity. It is very possible that we could see at various times deflation, profound inflation, and collapse of the US dollar. When to cash in and cash out requires very very nibble footwork. Don't try to get in/out at the bottem/top. I think it was either Morgan or Rockefeller that said getting out or in within 20% of a top or bottem was pinpoint accuracy. Nobody ever went broke selling at a profit.

2. Basing an up/down on the generator says something to me, what if the generator goes belly up? Things will continue to break after 1/1/00 and pats might be scarce. Gensets are nice, I have two, one is portable. Fuel can leak, be used, be stolen or comandeered. Make plans for having no genset up and working. It is a luxury item.

3. Too much preps is when you are causing significant troubles if Y2K is a BITR. This weasle word significant is inteneded to be madingly vague since it is different for each household. Enough preps is when you feel confident that you can at least muddle through an emergency without harm. This does not mean with comfort. I do not understand those that are trying to maintain their present high tech opulant lifestyle.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 07, 1999.

Just to be perfectly clear on the reasons why one might not want to have debt going into the new millennium, DJ pointed out the aspect of not being able to get the payment in on time. There is one other reason which Ken alluded to.

There is a possibility (which I consider somewhat remote at this time, but that could change) that many banks will fold if there is a depression-level drop in economic output. If this happens, we could enter a period of consistently dropping prices for a number of years.

If this happens, then the real interest rate on any debt you have will increase to the extent of this deflation. If your mortgage was for 7%, a deflation rate (negative inflation) of 5% would raise your real interest rate to 12%. Ouch! This is the exact opposite of what occured in the 1970's housing market in the U.S. where people were paying 3% interest rates with 10% inflation rates and "earning" 7% interest on their mortgages.

Personally, I have no debt, but I can afford not to. Others may have to take their chances if they feel they need more preps.

-- nothere nothere (nothere@nothere.com), June 07, 1999.

What about credit card debt? I don't have a car note, only a mortgage which is pretty manageable, but owe on credit cards. I've been trying to pay everything down AND put some money away. Should I concentrate on one area, and just 'keep up' with the others? Thanks for any advice.

-- IOIO (Workinghard@reducingdebt.com), June 07, 1999.

Regarding being debt-free, I lived in Alaska during the mid 80's "crash/depression" because of falling oil prices (AK pipeline oil major revenue for state). My house valuation fell 50%!! Fortunately I owned the house and had it rented out (revenue before, revenue after). I personally knew people holding bank mort. for 200$ of the post crash valueof their house!

Many people on this forum naively believe, IMHO opinion, that so many people will owe money to the banks that they can cut a deal. That was not the experience of folks in Anchorage (or Dallas or Houston). They were expected to pay the pre-crash bank mort. Many walked away from the equity they built up in their house. The banks sold the houses to the highest bidders.

Some on the forum have spoken of getting the equity out of your house before Y2K because of this historical fact; in other words, being debt-free, or having all equity out, understanding they risk forclosure. Food for thought.

BTW, my house is now worth 2/3 of the 1985 value, an example of how long it can take to recover from a crash. The DOW in l929 to until 1956 to recover.....

-- Leslie (***@***.net), June 07, 1999.

Housemouse and Taz, I too worry about the heat. According to the newspapers here in the Midwest, many more people die from heat than from cold. You're right, in that you can always put on more clothes, and even the smallest heat source will warm up a room, but there is no escape from heat. I remember the miserable summers before AC. Unless you have a nice basement which we don't, we're going to be hot and humid. I sure dread it. Heat wears me out.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 07, 1999.

When should you quit preparing?

(A) When YOU are fully satisfied that your preparations are enough. There will be a lot of little things left undone that can add to your comfort, so if you have time, you will want to do them. Continue to add items that will be useful for non-Y2K.

(B) Jan 1, 2000 is NOT a sufficient answer. Many options may be closed long before then; others may persist well after the new year. Critical stuff NOW! Nice to do's later.

(C) Can you call it a generator test? A power outage test? (Same as a Y2K test, but without the name...)

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), June 07, 1999.

justme:

I'm growing tired of making preparations for my DGI family members, but I won't stop. This financial drain is a drag, but I feel compelled to continue while I can. When the herd panics, I'll take cover.

This afternoon I heard from my cousin's husband that she attended a Saturday neighborhood meeting on Y2K, and now she's all concerned. She wants to find out more. I'll be interested in hearing what she has to say the next time I meet her.

Several months ago she awakened a little, but then she went back to sleep. Could it be she will truly GI this time? Her husband is a DGI who thinks of hard times as being 20+ years away. He's still in denial, but she seems to have the financial sway. Maybe I'm not alone after all.

Wait, she views me as the family nutcase eccentric. Guess I was too Infomagical the first time around. That fearful look in her eyes...

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 07, 1999.

Just a thought - When I am stuck in traffic & sitting in the heat during the summer I bring along a pump spray bottle of water (you can put in some sort of scent if you like!) & constantly spray my face & arms that are getting sunburned. This cool spray is very, very helpful & kept me from 'road rage' over highway repair jobs.

-- Sammie Davis (sammie0@hotmail.com), June 08, 1999.

Everyone - thank you so much for your responses. It has really helped to "validate" some things for me. The "pay-ahead" plan is sound - especially since there is no way we can be debt-free by 1/1/2000. I will give that a try. Am already saving paper to validate financial status - keeping really good records.

The generator - I think its "1500" whatever that means. I am pretty illiterate when it comes to the tech stuff. I do know that it will not power everything all the time. I just want to be able to recharge the freezer, run a few appliances now and again - and in the worst of the summer heat - plan for some cool days. The generator will do all that - according to my husband and the manufacturer. I just want to see it "for my own self" (spent enough time in Missouri - that the 'show-me' attitude stuck).

yes - calling it anything but a Y2K test might help - might try that. Already tested alot of stuff - one thing at a time. I just want the whole picture (as whole as a long weekend can provide)

BTW - am truly enjoying the Milne 10 thread.

thanks again - and even though you might not hear from me often - I do tune in quite frequently.

-- justme (not@home.com), June 08, 1999.

justme - If you live in Missouri you can call it a New Madrid Party instead of a Y2K test. That fault has been building pressure since the early 1800's with the only significant small release in the 1890's. Prof. Nutley said in the 1970's that it then had enough build up to release a 7 or an 8 richter. Last time I looked it's 1999 and no major or even minor releases since then......

Earthquakes don't care about the Gregorian or the Julian calendar. They also don't care if you are or you aren't.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 08, 1999.

I was told by an Air Force member that the guys who worked on the Tarmacs wore long sleeve shirts and long pants so they didn't get burned. This had the added effect of causing the close to become damp from sweat, which, when there was a breeze felt cool against the skin.

Living in Florida, I have learned that loose clothing is the rule, and yes, plenty of water. I loved that spray bottle suggestion!

Try to avoid being in the sun [duh!] and plan your day so tht you can work in the shade as it moves across the yard. I mow the west side in the morning, and the east in the afternoon, for example. Of course, now it's weeding and hoeing, not mowing, but it works!

Get a straw hat to cover your head and ears/neck. Keep a towel handy, or rag, and dip it in water and wrap loosely around your neck.

MAKE SURE YOU

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), June 08, 1999.

I was told by an Air Force member that the guys who worked on the Tarmacs wore long sleeve shirts and long pants so they didn't get burned. This had the added effect of causing the close to become damp from sweat, which, when there was a breeze felt cool against the skin.

Living in Florida, I have learned that loose clothing is the rule, and yes, plenty of water. I loved that spray bottle suggestion!

Try to avoid being in the sun [duh!] and plan your day so tht you can work in the shade as it moves across the yard. I mow the west side in the morning, and the east in the afternoon, for example. Of course, now it's weeding and hoeing, not mowing, but it works!

Get a straw hat to cover your head and ears/neck. Keep a towel handy, or rag, and dip it in water and wrap loosely around your neck.

MAKE SURE YOU DON'T GET SUNBURN ON TOP OF YOUR FEET! Believe me, it hurts big time!

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), June 08, 1999.