A strange thing happened to me at a local book store today.

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

With Valentine's Day fast approaching my son and I had ventured out to a shopping mall in our area to get some cards, etc.

We had done most of our shopping and on approaching a bookstore I thought I'd just pop in and see if I could find anything in relation to Y2K. Straight away I came across a little booklet put out by "Utne". Well there I was minding my own business thinking that I was fairly well hidden and unobserved looking through it when a female employee approached me and said something like (I don't recall exactly), "You really aren't taking that silliness seriously are you?" I was shocked to say the least, but there I was put right on the spot. Just what do I do now I thought to myself. Do I take a stand and be honest or do I just blow it off. Anyhow I went for it and said, "As a matter of fact I do take it very seriously and if I were you I would too." Well that set her off big time. She really laid into me. I got told how stupid I was - didn't I realise what hype was when I saw it. She went on to tell me, amonst other things, that we lived in a country with an abundance of everything and that it will still all be there and more next year. While this was going on another female employee joined in to let me know that this particular store was ready and that her husband worked for the IRS and that they are already compliant and have been for a while. I told her that I didn't think that was quite correct. I said that I had been researching about it for a while and that official documentation and senate meetings don't paint such a rosy picture. I was then told that I shouldn't let it bother me so much because it was all in hand and that everything's almost fixed now and will certainly all be by next year. Did I really think that the government and all the businesses were going to let anything bad happen.

I mentioned about Senator Bob Bennett and Senator Horn and was told that they didn't know who they were and had never heard of any such Senators by those names. Anyway why would I take any notice of anything that any Senator had to say after what they've put the country through with the Impeachment. This is really not a big problem you don't hear any other countries blowing this all out of proportion - only in America could this happen. I tried to explain how I thought it was a problem and that I needed to know more about for my own peace of mind. I got told that there isn't really anything to worry about and could rest assured that next year there will be plenty of food in the grocery stores and that the electricity will still be on. (I never made any mention of food or power shortages).

Well you can imagine by this time we had gathered quite an audience. Although no-one else said anything I did notice after I put the booklet down that another person had picked it up and was looking through it.

Anyhow I had had enough and felt like I was fighting a losing battle and thought it better to retreat. I said that they were entitled to their opinion and that I was entitled to mine and that seeing as how very strongly they felt about this particular publication I was surprised that it was even for sale in their store. I also said that I didn't think it good store policy to approach customers and berate them in such a manner with regards to their choice of reading material. I then got told that yes we all were entitled to our opinion and that they had other things to worry about and that to worry about Y2K was just silly. As I was leaving I was told that they would be happy to see me back next January when I realised that everything was going to be just fine.

I walked through the mall thinking that good heavens people really don't know and they most probably won't know until the end of the year. These people really just have no clue they really think that everything is just going to be business as usual.

During my drive back home I had so many mixed emotions churning inside. Anger, disbelief, confusion, and worse still doubt beginning to set in. I mean there were these two women that quite obviously didn't see a problem. They were so sure that everything is going to be just fine. I was starting to wonder if I was being irrational and I looked around at everything that I was driving past and it struck me how inconceivable it is to think of things just not working and chaos everywhere. Maybe these women are right I thought. Of course everything is going to be okay it just has to be. After all these businesses are spending billions to fix it and some seem to have fixed it. My credit cards with expiry dates of 00 seem to work everywhere and life just seems to be going on as usual. Does that person in that car or that car or that truck or that school bus think there is a problem. No I don't think so everyone just seems to be going about their daily lives as usual. Just what the hell am I supposed to think and more importantly what am I supposed to do? Should I be stockpiling food and water or am I being silly? Should I withdraw some extra cash or all our savings or will I cause a bank run? Should I? Should I? Should I? Just who has the answers? Where are the answers? Just why don't they tell us what really is going on?

Oh look! there's the grocery store we'd better stop by and get a few extra things just in case. It's better to be safe than sorry isn't it?

We now have a few extra cans of Dinty Moore stew, chucky soup, bic lighters, salmon, anti-bacterial non-soap cleanser, and bottled water with an expiry date of "01" all on sale.

I am now back to my lifeline researching the latest Y2K events and hope that I find something promising that indicates that things might not be quite as bad as I think they might be.

-- Shocked (&amazed@reaction.com), February 11, 1999


This is a terrific thread! I hope that lurkers and newbies who have not yet had the experience of being scorned and ridiculed read all of the comments carefully. I'm still getting about 300 emails a day, and the percentage of angry, hostile messages has been slowly increasing in the past few weeks. As for Ms. Shocked, the best thing that has happened to you in the past few days is that you and your husband now seem to be in alignment. With that simple fact, you can be confident of being able to face the future with a united front!

Best wishes, Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), February 11, 1999.

Was this your first such experience? I go through this almost everyday still. I question myself everyday whether I'm a paranoid idiot on the internet too much.

That is why I am on the internet everyday. As soon as I log off my computer and go about my normal life, those nagging questions pop into my head again. It is surreal. I live in two dimensions. In cyberspace where knowledge and intelligent people live, but I never hear their voices or see their faces, and on planet earth, where people are idiots but call me idiot if I utter "y2K".

This crazy life sometimes makes me wish for 2000 to come quickly and get this strangeness over with.

Welcome to the twilight Zone, Shocked.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), February 11, 1999.

WOW incredibly rude folks, I hope you will not shop there again. As you stated everyone is entitled to an opinion but the fact that you were a customer and did not ask for theirs makes them really out of line. again I know how you feel I am constantly looking for reaffirmation that this is not all hype. But unfortunatly the more I read and resaerch the more I realize there isn't anything to back-up the "don't worry" speech. I am becoming more and more shocked and amazed that more people just don't GET IT. My advice,keep researching if things go well you can be the 1st to really know, if things go bad at least you had a chance to prepare. Hope the rest of your day goes better.

-- lbank (lkb@hotmail.com), February 11, 1999.

Amen to what Chris said. Shocked, I assume your son is a child. Do you want to look him in the eyes a year from now and say, "I'm sorry Son, we don't have any food because I listened to some morons who worked in a bookstore and who obviously knew nothing about Y2K."? Visit this forum as often as it takes to keep you focused. That's what it's for. We all have a hard time living in two parallel but opposite universes. Have faith in your own research, and don't listen to morons!

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (storestuff@home.now), February 11, 1999.

I found this article by Larry Sanger to be a very helpful reminder in times like these:

Is it Rational to Prepare for Y2K?

-- Reporter (foo@foo.bar), February 11, 1999.

Shocked, you are too nice. If they'd approached me while I was reading that (cool pamphlet btw) I would've said:

Naw, this is such a load of horseshit, ain't it ? Go fer nothing but bum-wipe and bird cage lining. What buncha dolts in this country, eh girls ? Now reach me down that copy of Penthouse will ya please.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), February 11, 1999.

Y2K or not this system is going down...I think the Programer Prophets are correct in the timing.

(Amos 3:7 KJV) "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

(Isa 26:20 KJV) "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast."

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), February 11, 1999.

Hey Shocked, I think you just spotted a new kind of animal. We see you basic Don't Get Its' (DGI) and Don't Wanna Get It's (DWGI) already. I think you've just seen a DWAGGIST - Don't Wanna and Ain't Gonna Get It, So There. (AKA the walking dead.)

Now I see who it was reelected our Affectionate President. I'm sure they will be fully supportive of the ammendment to allow presidents to serve more than 2 terms.

-- Greybear

- Got Acronyms?

"... it gets curiouser and curiouser said Alice to the rabbit."

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 11, 1999.

Hi Shocked. We all have our own choices to make. Is there a problem being ready if things do go bad? You can silll eat that food next year. You can still spend any extra cash, if it's worth anything. Is there any waste in being ready? As for your 2 new girl friends, send them here: maybe we can enlighten them. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 11, 1999.

Unfortunately, this scenario will play itself out countless times in the next 10 months--only more vehemently.

You were only in a bookstore. Imagine what it will be like when you withdraw 3 or 4 grand from the bank sometime this spring or summer (if it's still legal by then). The tellers and other customers will be spitting on you.

Focus on facts, not feelings -- evidence, not emotions.

As a culture, we have never been so controlled by feelings and emotions rather than reality. And nothing has ever come along in our lifetimes which is so tailored-made to induce denial as y2k.

this is gonna be a once-in-a-lifetime show, folks. Put your trays in the upright position and hang on for a wild ride.

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), February 11, 1999.

Hi Shocked,

Take a deep breath..

Think fade...fade... dont want to give the DWGIs the idea you are prepared... they may remember later...

I'd shop somewhere else too.. and pay cash..

There will be more of this stuff..

-- Bob Barbour (r.barbour@waikato.ac.nz), February 11, 1999.

Dear Chris,

you said: "That is why I am on the internet everyday. As soon as I log off my computer and go about my normal life, those nagging questions pop into my head again. It is surreal. I live in two dimensions. In cyberspace where knowledge and intelligent people live, but I never hear their voices or see their faces, and on planet earth, where people are idiots but call me idiot if I utter "y2K".

You are not alone. Same here.

Most in our village are clueles and don't want to hear about this. Fortunately there are quite a few Mormons living here who work together, glad to help others, and are mostly always prepared.

Little Switzerland is always prepared.

There is one soft-spoken young lady here who is confined to a wheelchair. She has my greatest respect because she grabbed the bull by its horns a long time ago and is wrestling it to the ground. Regardless of what everyone else thinks. She is organizing, speaking, buying, praying, etc. I admire her greatly. Where are the mucho men? Looking up their sunshine stack?


-- Not Again! (seenit@ww2.com), February 11, 1999.

regarding y2k what's the differance between an optimist and a pessimist......... the pessimist has more information!!!!!

-- z (y2k@y2k.com), February 11, 1999.

The militant DWGI (MDGI) are obviously threatened by those of us who do. I've never understood why.?? However, as evidenced by the trolls, they are a growing group *sigh*. To me, even on days when I doubt my sanity for thinking it could be TEOTWAWKI, I can see only good from preparing. Most insurance is money down the drain, but preparation goods can be used whether or not they're needed. On a more personal note, the most MDWGI's that I've run across are those who have a suspicion that it might indeed be TEOTWAWKI, but haven't got the resourses to do anything about it.

Got extra?

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), February 11, 1999.

I've learned from this kind of experience, that these people were only offering an emotional and psycho. argument. That's why the second one backed up the first. They needed each others support. I've made a habit of saving news clips, and other factual info. to bolster my claim, (and to stay motivated) When I meet someone like these two, I usually handle them pretty well, and offer repeatedly to put them on my e-mail list for info. Then I send all this great info. posted here if they accept. (Thanks a million guys) I have a growing list of converts. One of my favorite lines for hardheads is " You should tell that to Red Cross, FEMA, N.Guard, Canada Military, etc.etc. Tell them the problems solved. "

-- King Of Free Estimates (We'llgetinow@or.later), February 11, 1999.

Dear Shocked: Well, my brother-in-law works for the IRS and I can tell you that his wife (my sister) just bought a 12 gauge shotgun, tons of ammo, and enough food and toilet paper to last them for over a year. My sister is so freaked because she knows what the score is with the IRS. They have moved all his retirement money out of stocks, cashed in her IRA, is claiming 9 dependents on her paycheck because she doesn't think the IRS will be around in January 2000 to collect the money. She's renting a U-Haul and coming up our way to get 3 cords of firewood. She has plywood to board up her windows, and barbwire to go around the ourside perimeter of her house. I am the one always calming her down, telling her take a deep breath, and move quickly and quietly. My sister would not be acting this way if she and her husband were confident about him having a job come January 1. I have a suggestion, maybe you should print out this thread and drop it off at the book store you visited, it may give them something to think about.

"Anyone living within 5 miles of Burger King, is hamburger." Bardou

-- bardou (Bardou@baloney.com), February 11, 1999.


Your thoughtful post is reason number one why in the real world


-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), February 11, 1999.

Dear Shocked,

I agree with all the answers above. You seem to be a 'GI' (Get It - for any newbies) hold on to that. You also have something very precious that those two unenlightened ladies don't have and that's an open mind. Use that for all it's worth it may well save you and your son/family. Also, continue to make those trips to the grocery store and yes, your right it is better to be safe than sorry.

Chris, I can relate. Only I'm not quite ready for 2000 to hit just yet. I'm not quite finished preparing. Oh! I know I never will be.

lbank, Agree too, WOW, how rude. I think I would have asked to speak to the manager and given him a piece of my mind. Whilst I was at it I would have asked about the company's Y2K compliance status for myself.

Pearlie, I agree with you too. I only have to think of my own two children and that keeps me going. It's no mean feat getting all this preparation done.

-- Carol (usa-uk@email.msn.com), February 11, 1999.

Shucks!! Now I don't agree with all the answers above.

-- Carol (usa-uk@email.msn.com), February 11, 1999.

I'm sorry, but not particularly surprised, that that happened. it's amazing how rude some people can be. Specifically, can you imagine the way those two "ladies" will react when TSHTF??? Hell hath no fury etc. - I wouldn't want to be anywhere near those angry panicking bitches when the penny finally drops. Same for the rest of the greedy, self-centred JQPublic, society has changed for the worse, it will be dog eat dog in most places, especially the cities.

The vast majority of people really do not have a clue. I'm beginning to think (have for a while now) that we on this forum give too much credence to the herd "getting it." From a humanitarian viewpoint we'd all like this to happen, from a selfish viewpoint, not 'til we're already prepared ourselves. As long as Greenspan does his job and prevents a crash for as long as possible, the herd will be happily grazing and checking on their 401k profits.

What a strange time we live in - parallel realities, the twilight zone... :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), February 11, 1999.

I agree with Uncle Deedah. Be quiet.

-- Linda A. (adahi@muhlon.com), February 11, 1999.

This is great. I've been preparing for over a year now and yet to have it happen. There's an eastern saying that alludes to being a rock in a flowing stream. I think we need to concentrate on being the rock and letting things flow around us. Wish I could be more specific on that quote.

-- ted (justpassing@through.net), February 11, 1999.

Having gone through a number of these encounters, let me give you a rerun of yours.

Clerk:"You really aren't taking that silliness seriously are you?" 
You:(soft,low voice with a smile) Well, the Red Cross has officially 
    advised people to prepare. Don't you agree with them?
Clerk: Uhh, they didn't say that!! Its just a rumor.
You:Oh no, I have their official pamphlet and I have the website 
    address as well. Would you like me to get it for you? 
Clerk: No, uhh I don't think so.. I mean, uh, NOBODY ELSE has been 
     saying this STUFF, so...
You: You're right. It is so confusing at times,but... there are some 
     serious people in the Government who think this is a big 
     problem. Senator Bennett of Utah, Congressman Horn of California 
     and then there is the National Guard spokesmen. You know, that 
     fantastic article in the January issue of Vanity Fair explains 
     all this very well. Did you happen to read it?
Clerk: Uhh, no. Well,uhh, sorry I bothered you. (walks away)

You have to stay calm and speak softly. Notice how each of your 
replies ends in a question? Try this technique. Make sure you have a 
few simple facts and try to seem like you want to help 
them. Don't ARGUE. Keep a couple website addresses in your 
purse/wallet and offer to share them. Smile. Keep it short. A few will 
GI and most won't, but you will feel much better about yourself.  

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), February 11, 1999.

I think the country will be in denial untill the very end. The press and the politicans will lie through their teeth untill the end out of fear of panic and falling stock values.

-- Bob (univ3234@aol.com), February 11, 1999.

Thanks for all the responses.

I am a GI. I have been looking up documentation on the IRS. I was going to get some and go back to the store, but I have changed my mind. It is best to let it go and apply my energies elsewhere. I've actually come up with this decision with the help of my wonderful husband. By the way he gave me an early Valentine's present. He asked earlier if there was anything I wanted and I said that I felt we should spend our money on Y2K things. Anyhow that's what he has gone ahead and done. He's made me promise not to tell. He's not all that comfortable about me telling people on the net our business. Anyhow my day certainly got better I now have my husband that is a GI. Shhhhh! He's even talking about moving to somewhere safer. Together we can get our family through this.

-- Shocked (&Amazed@reaction.com), February 11, 1999.

It's a safe bet they were not accosting people over cookbooks or software guides, just that piece you picked up.

What you encountered is FEAR. You'll see a lot more of it in the coming months. It comes from those who suspect the truth but fear it so greatly that they'll strike out at anyone who forces them to face it.

Pity them.

-- art welling (artw@lancnews.infi.net), February 11, 1999.

Well, I think some of you fine people are coming around to my way of thinking! KEEP QUIET! When people ask you about it just nod your head and smile and tell them nothing is going to happen! A few threads back I was blasted by a couple people because I posted that I don't tell anyone anything, that I gave up on that a long time ago. I believe for the safety of your family it is the wisest thing to do.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), February 11, 1999.

I recieved a phoncom this am from a DGI who works in the green section of the federal government(army), who for months has poo-pooed my preps and info on the subject of y2k. The grapevine is in high gear over National Guard preps and the FDIC know your customer silliness. I guess the light bulb is starting to get current, as she actually listened to the basics, along with some of the web sites such as this for more info. It was really good to feel a level of belief for a change. Until now the conversion rate (from dwgi & dgi to gi) has only been about 3% of the people I'v spoken to. See you on the other side.

-- another brickinthewall (blend-in@y2k.net), February 11, 1999.

I am getting some sarchastic "how's the y2k preps going? got enough rice yet? etc...." Now my smart ass, but true response is "things are going great, J&G (a gun/ammo supply store) finally got the S&B 12 gauge 00 buckshot in. I was able to get 400 rounds! Really shoots a nice tight pattern. I'll be able to blow away any hungery fool trying to rob me next year! How are your preps going?" Mostly quite after that response.

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), February 11, 1999.


Don't be...

Please try not to waste any more emotional energy on folks like those you encountered in the book store. You will end up insane or deathly ill, and how can you continue preps in that condition? Shake the figurative dust of Joe SUV and Jill Soccermom from the soles of your feet. They and many others have chosen self-delusion and militant denial over facing reality. In my opinion, certain groups are being set up for scapegoat status a la Nazi Germany. If someone sincerely solicits info from you about Y2K, then fine. Otherwise, fade 'em. They-as Milne would say-are toast. God keep ya'!

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), February 11, 1999.

To quote from LRHubbard "Time Enough For Love"--"Never, never underestimate the power of human stupidity." We live in a middle size town in the SE and between the EOW Baptists and the DGI's it's enough to drive you nuts. We operate a company that is a state subcontractor. It's for sale. Thank goodness my wife is a GI. The one thing I've learned is "SHUT UP!! THEY KNOW WHERE WE LIVE!!' THE BAD PART--SHE'S RIGHT!

-- Lobo (hiding@woods.com), February 12, 1999.

>To quote from LRHubbard "Time Enough For Love"<

Errr..that would be Robert A Heinlein. L. Ron would never say such a thing directly. Bad for business, y'know.

RAH also said (about us?), "Being right too soon is socially unacceptable."


"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." --- Harlan Ellison

-- Hallyx (Hallyx@aol.com), February 12, 1999.

Halyx, You beat me to it.

1) Shocked and Uncle, It loks like we either put on the armor or the camo. Most of us will vote camo, it's nicer and less dangerous.

2) Uncle, once upon a time, you could tell when you were back in the world....... You got off a plane and the yutzes (there were always a few) were jeering. NOW, it's damn hard to tell.


-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 12, 1999.

Shocked, if you think about it a bit more, it might be partly the fact that these people work in a bookstore that has you so stunned. You assume that they like books, i.e., information of all kinds, and they read a lot. If so, they should be able to sort out the wheat from the chaff, form conclusions and convincingly debate their own view. Or at least that's the way it used to be before schools started teaching kids what to think instead of how to think and the Norton Anthology began excluding DEMs. I guess that was your mistake--you weren't parroting the party line. Like Bardou and many others, we long ago stopped telling people what we're doing about Y2K. With the number of DGIs out there, there's no way we can help them all. We've decided to help my elderly father and the aged couple across the street. We bought a shotgun for any problems, the first gun either of us has ever owned (military issue excepted) and, yes, we can shoot it--and WILL, if necessary. As you see, Shocked, you are DEFINITELY not alone!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 12, 1999.

The surest way to be hated is to always tell the truth.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), February 12, 1999.

I think Art Welling hit the nail on the head. If they weren't so afraid of Y2K, they wouldn't have abandoned all principles of customer service and confronted you like that.

Just for fun, try testing them to see how close they are to the "fight or flight" syndrome. When the "you don't really believe that stuff do you?" challenge is made, try one of the following options to see what reaction you get:

  1. Turn to them without hesitating. Look around as if to verify you can't be overheard. Hand them the brochure and in a serious whisper, tell them "I'm with the company. I strongly suggest you read this. Your life may depend on it" Then turn to leave only after once again looking around as if to verify you weren't overheard. Walk quickly, but inconspicuously from the store.

  2. Turn confidently toward them with just the slightest hint of a grin. Look them directly in the eye with that "I KNOW something you you don't know" look and wink. Hand them the brochure with a slight nod of the head and walk quietly away.

  3. Look up from reading the booklet with a stunned and confused expression. With your best "you gotta be kidding" expression, say "Uhhh, you mean you don't??" In total disbelief, you hand the brochure to them. Pat them gently on the arm and say "Good luck. You'll need it." as you turn to head out the door.

Turn the tables on them and let the booklet do the talking for you. It's worth a shot.

-- David (David@BankPacman.com), February 12, 1999.

Print this thread, take it to them today and tell them they are now two famous bookstore workers....watch the expression on their face, they couldn't resist reading this thread! Maybe they'll log on and see for themselves....God! I feel like a Jehovah Witness trying to convince people to become a Y2K kook!

-- Pooped (Pooped@pooped.com), February 12, 1999.

David --- Yes, so cool. I will henceforth use of these three lines without fail.

bardou --- thanks for scaring us to death about the IRS. We may loathe it, but no IRS, no government of any kind, period. That's reality.

While ridiculing GIs in the media will keep many folks from preparing this year and meet the anti-panic objective at least for the next six months, I'm of the opinion that if Y2K > 8, it will be pretty ... darn ... obvious that the GIs didn't cause it. Which isn't to say jealousy and, um, a desire to share our supplies won't then come into play (again, think, Y2K > 8 ....). Lock and load, yes.

The push-pull, at least for me, is that I can't actually survive indefinitely without at least some of the rest of my rural community pulling together with me. Sure, we can eat for a year and grow food for ten years, milk our cows and eat the turkeys, chickens and geese, but even that can't be kept totally invisible considering we know so many folks (farmers, clients of my wife' midwifery practice, neighbors of all sorts). That is both the up-side and down-side of what we used to think of as old-fashioned communities! Hey, we live in one.

If Y2K > 8, I will need, if nothing else, people who are a better shot than me alongside! As well as lots of other skills.

I don't intend to put my family in unnecessary danger and I strongly identify with those who urge total quiet (sigh), but I don't think it's entirely a simple thing. Or, to put it another way, we're all in danger, period, already.

Take this NG. Ed has put himself in some danger over the years by being a visible torch point for Y2K alarmism, yet, if he hadn't, how many of us might not yet have been alerted and prepared so we can survive Y2K?

Much the same is true in our own communities where we are the "Ed Yourdons".

Forgive my being crude, but, for me, it's "alert some", "warn some", "feed some", "shoot some (God forbid)", "be helped by some (for instance, the guy who just became a GI through me and is a superb hunter who cans deer in his sleep)". I think we have to exercise profound intuitive discernment in each case.

We need to identify our allies as well as fade from as many adversaries as possible. This is Cory's point about DragonRanch et all. His other friend, the loner in DC, may make it in the wilderness for a while but what happens after the "while" ends?

Now, if I can just get everyone in town to believe that I really do work for the company ....

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), February 12, 1999.

Glad you shared your experience, Shocked. I'm afraid this will happen to all of us eventually and it helps us to visualize those events in our context.

BTW, the Utne Reader booklet that caused all this is great. I bought 50 at $1.00 each and have been leaving them at several places around time to plant the meme.

(What's a meme? Go to Yahoo and search for Meme Or Memetics. Fascinating theory suggesting that ideas are transmitted and propagated much like viral infections are.)

I spent long years in retail management. Those two would out the door. My rule was "The customer may not always be right, but they are NEVER wrong."

http://www.utne.com/y2k/inde x.html

Nice to see Pere Ed chiming in. Suspect hes had a conversation or two like Shockeds in his time...

-- Lewis (aslanshow@yahoo.com), February 12, 1999.

The response from the people in the bookstore is one I've seen over and over connected to many events and ideas. Using the Greybear Acronym approach, call it DTMI: "Don't Threaten My Illusions". And of course the fallout from Y2K threatens so many peoples illusions about the forever-ness of so-called modern technologically advancing civilization.

I'm not always silent about Y2K and related issues, but I am careful how much I say when, and in what settings. When peoples' worldviews are threatened they will bite back. Reminds me of John Carpenter's film, They Live. If you've never seen this campy jewel, head to the video store today. Be careful when trying to rouse sleepers, or at least be prepared to smile politely and back away quickly when they take a swing at you.

Breathing in the fragrant sunshine, eyeballs peeled for hummingbirds and butterflies....


-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), February 12, 1999.

I mentioned about Senator Bob Bennett and Senator Horn and was told that they didn't know who they were and had never heard of any such Senators by those names.

Enough said.

Anyway why would I take any notice of anything that any Senator had to say after what they've put the country through with the Impeachment.

Perfect Sheople.

This is really not a big problem you don't hear any other countries blowing this all out of proportion - only in America could this happen.

Canada? England? Russia? etc. etc. etc. etc.

Shake the dust off your feet, & don't look back. I'm sure they have insurance (auto, homeowners, life etc.). You can too.

-- Deborah (whocares@idiots.think), February 12, 1999.

I *disagree* with this statement: "The surest way to be hated is to always tell the truth. " This is a sign of bad company.

"He kisses the lips Who gives a right answer." -- Proverbs 24:26


"He who ocorrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself, And he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you, Reprove a wise man, and he will love you." -- Proverbs 9:7-8

-- Reporter (foo@foo.bar), February 12, 1999.

well shocked I was at a baby shower night before last and after just about everyone one was gone someone(not me) brought up y2k. She stated she thought is was a bunch of crap. I stated how red cross had encouraged at least some minimun prep. and another lady expressed how her programmer friends had real fear as to the outcome, I went home feeling better about the whole thing. Last night on 11:00pm news there was a big y2k article, complete with interviews with peter degarer(?), gov't officials ect. well guess what, they said no big deal, no need to stock pile food or worry about travel, power ect. The mom phoned this am to see if I had watched the news, what can I say, I have decided that everyone has access to the same info that i do and I am tired of being labelled a nut so i will quietly keep preparing and keep my head down and mouth shut!!

-- (lbk@hotmail.com), February 13, 1999.


Just my two cents: I would of just looked at them and said, in a soft voice, "I know, its my husband who's into this stuff. He told me to go buy this book. If I come home with out it, he'll just beat me again, like he did when I forgot the propane..." Then let your eyes fall to the floor as if terribly embarrassed.

For once, let's leave them with *their* jaws on the floor !!!

PS: I'm so sick and tired of *everyone* feeling they have the right to give me their opinions on every single idiotic thing they think of. Whatever happened to being polite and talking about the weather???

David: Good one

-- Sub-Mit (lurking@ofcourse.com), February 13, 1999.

Dear sir, I have found that the best way to deal with people that are uninformed but actually have formed a strong opinion anyway is to print up senate reports and congressional records which tell the story. The best report is the one the congress and senate have used almost exclusively to approach this thing it is called the Gartner report. Print it up and then shake it off. Then let em go. Some people are un helpable, they are their own worst enemies.

-- greg (Greg_hertzberg@hotmail.com), February 13, 1999.

I agree, print this thread. Be sure to circle the post from Mr. Yourdon, and ask if they have his book for sale in their store. Also, circle the part about them being famous, and hand them the address of this forum. Tell them they should see what the rest of the world is saying about them. Wish them a nice day. Go home and post a new thread "paging 2 dummies from XYZ bookstore", or something to that effect. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 13, 1999.

PS - You have done your job. Leave the rest to us. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), February 13, 1999.

Welcome to the club, Ms. Shocked. I've had an interest in survival for over 20 years now, and I'm pretty used to this sort of reaction. Most people think any nut in camouflage is a survivalist, and that any survivalist is ready for a white coat with the extra long sleeves. People often make emotional decisions when they should make logical ones, but they'll hardly ever change them unless forced to(basically when it's too late). I discuss the subject with anyone who wants to, but if someone's goal is to attempt to ridicule me, I just follow the message I saw on a license plate once-SCROOMALL.

-- Noah Simoneaux (noaj@yournet.com), February 14, 1999.

I've been very fortunate to encounter a fairly large number of GIs in the past few months. Few of the DGIs I've come across have been in the IT industry, so I get to be the one who says things like, "I've been in "The Business" for 17+ years. Too many companies waited too long and started too late and there's far too much left to do. There will be problems here and abroad. The Red Cross and the National Guard say, "Get ready". Sounds like good advice to me."

Shock. Denial. Anger. Bargaining. Depression. Acceptance. Action. Coming soon at various times to a conversation near you.

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.com), February 14, 1999.


It always amazes me how completely threatened people are at even thinking how their lives can be disrupted in an instant. Fear can be blinding. Stupidity, moreso.

In California the big one could happen in the next five minutes, but we pretend its thirty years away. (Evidence of the Northern Calif Loma Prieta 1989 or the Southern Calif Northridge Quake in 1994, aside).

Your bookstore conversation is unfortunately quite typical. Sometimes I go for it too. Referring to FEMA, the Red Cross, the United Nations, Canada, the National Guard, the U.S. Senate, our State Government, the Los Angeles Fire Department and our local City Hall usually does the conversational trick nicely. Plus cocking my head, speaking softly, yet with authority and asking ... You mean, you havent throughly investigated this for yourself? An incredulous look, and a shake of the the head, also does wonders.

Remember, seeds do get planted in unusual ways. Long ago I decided to accept, or reject, information from a passionate source based upon whether or not it appears theyve done their homework. Few take the time to become well informed on an issue that has such life disruptive potential.

Know your sources. Check and verify, often. Shift happens, daily. Then trust your gut instincts and intuitive insight.

Ten and a half months and counting. Many changes still to go, minute- by-minute.

Expect the unexpected.


(ted, the Chinese story you mentioned is about a rock and a reed in the stream. Would you rather be like the rock? It holds itself firmly in place, efforting against the flow to stay planted. The reed, however is rooted firmly as well, but dances lightly, and is flexible, with the shifting waves. Its the analogy between being stressed or relaxed).

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 14, 1999.

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